Amfa Lacks The Understanding

Checking it Out

Veteran
Apr 3, 2003
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NWA job savings doubted
BY MARTIN J. MOYLAN
Pioneer Press

Despite steadily trimming its work force over the past several years, Northwest Airlines' expenditures on labor costs keep going up.

The airline has cut the equivalent of 14,391 full-time employees from 2000 to 2003, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. That's a 27 percent reduction. For the same period, Northwest's reports show that its spending on wages, salaries and benefits rose 6 percent.

How can that be?

As the struggling airline continues its push for nearly $1 billion in annual wage and other labor cost reductions, more employees are asking that question and wondering what the answer means for them.

Eagan-based Northwest would not put a figure on cost savings achieved with job cuts or otherwise comment on its employment and payroll trends.

In recent annual reports, though, Northwest indicates that salary, wage and benefit reductions flowing from job cuts since 2000 have been offset to an unspecified extent by several factors. They include retroactive wage and benefit payments tied to labor contract settlements, $27 million of employee severance costs following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and higher average wage rates, as well as increased pension, group insurance and post-employment benefit expenses.

Last year, Northwest contributed a total of $413 million in cash and the stock of its regional carrier, Pinnacle Airlines, to its pension plans.

The airline's unions, which are being pressed hard to give up enormous concessions to keep Northwest viable, are especially perplexed by the seeming incongruity of big layoffs and increased payroll spending.

For instance, Northwest is asking its mechanics for nearly $200 million in annual wage and other givebacks. Based on company estimates of a full-time mechanic's cost at $85 to $95 an hour, including benefits, the airline could have saved about $700 million a year just with its elimination of some 3,700 mechanics' jobs, figures Jim Atkinson, president of Local 33 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association.

"But what have we already sacrificed with all the layoffs, not to mention the job losses through attrition?'' said Atkinson.
"Even at $60 an hour (for a mechanic), that's still over $460 million. That's way over the concessions they said they needed from our group."

If a value of just $35,000 is assumed for each job, Northwest's job cuts in the past three years would be worth about a half billion dollars on an annual basis.

Northwest's job cuts have been in line with its performance, said Blaylock & Partners airline analyst Ray Neidl. The airline's operating losses for the past three years amount to nearly $2 billion. From 2000 to 2003, its revenue fell 15.4 percent, while expenses dropped 8.4 percent.

"Its need to reduce unit costs (the cost of flying a passenger one mile) was not affected by cutting headcount,'' Neidl said. "The airline's unit cost has to come down and the only way to do that is by reducing salaries and benefits and raising productivity."

Layoffs take out the least-senior and therefore least-expensive employees, said Darryl Jenkins, executive director of the George Washington University Aviation Institute.

"You end up with older pilots (and other employees) making higher wages,'' he said. "Simply reducing your labor force does not reduce your unit costs . You have a very high concentration of higher-paid employees left. They will come and ask them for concessions, no doubt about that."
Northwest, he said, is at a disadvantage against United Airlines, American, US Airways and other national carriers that have not only cut jobs but also won wage and other labor-cost rollbacks.

"United, in Chapter 11, reduced its costs by 20 percent,'' said Jenkins. "That's a pretty big dip, and United will have a very big competitive advantage over Northwest in costs — and thus pricing."

Northwest's labor cost for every mile it flies a seat on its planes — an industry benchmark — was 3.8 cents in the third quarter that ended last September. That was the third-highest rate among the six big traditional network carriers and well above the marks of low-cost carriers such as Southwest Airlines, Northwest says.

Delta Air Lines came in at 4.5 cents and US Air, 4.2 cents. Among those with lower costs than Northwest were American at 3.7 cents; United and Continental, 3.4 cents; Southwest, 3 cents; America West, 2.2 cents; and JetBlue, 1.9 cents.

Northwest employees feel the jobs cuts already executed by Northwest represent a great sacrifice on their part toward helping turn the airline around.

"To a degree, they (layoffs) can be considered a concession — with the amount of people who have been cut from their jobs,'' said Jeff Gardner, vice president of the Professional Flight Attendants Association.

At this time, 1,260 flight attendants are on furlough. Another 1,415 are on a leave program of one kind or another. Gardner estimated most of the laid-off flight attendants made about $36,000 a year.

"Everything is flown with a minimum crew now," he said. "Other airlines fly a DC9-30 with three flight attendants. We fly with two the majority of the time. … We're understaffed and doing more with less."

Additionally, Northwest is flying with about 1,300 fewer pilots than it did in early 2001, according to the Northwest Airlines Air Line Pilots Association, the pilots' union. About 930 pilots have been laid off. Hundreds of others have retired.

Pilots start at about $35,000 annually. The most-senior pilots can make $225,000 or so a year.

Northwest is in contract talks with its pilots, seeking $2.7 billion in wage and other concessions over the next 6½ years. The company's proposal would reduce pilot pay by 17.5 percent from current rates, the union reports.

Any union response to Northwest's concessions pitch would take into consideration savings the airline achieved with job cuts, said Hal Myers, a Northwest pilot and chair of the union's Communications Committee.

"If we come up with an investment plan, that would be a factor,'' he said.

And if the pilots choose to give anything up to Northwest, they will expect something in return, Myers said.

"We don't have any intention of embarking on a one-way deal,'' he said.

Similarly, the International Association of Machinists, which represents Northwest ground workers, also is in contract talks with the airline. IAM members have lost about 4,100 jobs at Northwest since September 2001.

Asked by Northwest for wage and other rollbacks, the union countered with a proposal for wage hikes.

"Our people are working shorthanded,'' said IAM District 143 secretary-treasurer John Massetti. "We can't get days off or vacation. People are getting hurt, the longer hours they work and the more pressure they're under. It's not a fun place to be anymore."

You need to understand The 3 unions at AA understood the complex situation of unit cost. This was reduced, in turn allowed more employees to stay employed. NW on the other hand will continue to adjust if that means farming out all the Maintenance. Which by the way amfa has negotiated basically 100% farmouts. Every expert has repeatedly said the unit cost needs to come down to stay competitive.
 
IAM members have lost about 4,100 jobs at Northwest since September 2001.

This has to be a lie or CIO would have mentioned in the past. CIO why did you not "informer" us?
 
Checking it Out said:
NWA job savings doubted
BY MARTIN J. MOYLAN
Pioneer Press

For instance, Northwest is asking its mechanics for nearly $200 million in annual wage and other givebacks. Based on company estimates of a full-time mechanic's cost at $85 to $95 an hour, including benefits, the airline could have saved about $700 million a year just with its elimination of some 3,700 mechanics' jobs, figures Jim Atkinson, president of Local 33 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association.


CIO,
Now you post a news paper artical which says 3700 AMT's are laid off.
I ask you why does the TWU claim 4000, or 4500 or more in the "Informer."

Can you explain why you and the TWU are so flexible with your claims of laid off AMTs at NWA?
 
I believe the article is complete, it also states that amfa has taken concessions. the form is to continue reduction of personal. But read closer and you will see the difference in Representation. The Unions at AA seen the writing on the wall. I also believe members have already been recalled at AA. Flight Attendants?
 
Sounds to me like the twu wants AMFA to roll over and die so they can go right down the toilet like we did. I'm sure that if NWA mechanics had our contract it would be 100% outsource, like the twu represented work at Zebco. The difference is, AMFA is doing everything a Union can do to protect it's members. AMFA has not agreed to anyone getting laid-off, unlike the twu has. Even as bad as you spin the AMFA to be, they are no worse than the twu. The twu has decimated the industry standard for the mechanics pay rates and benefits, and everyone else wants the same, regardless of their situation. You make it very hard for the other unions to properly represent their employees. This is why we need to be under one umbrella.
Here's to the twu..................
Setting the industry standard back 50+ years!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers................

Keep the Faith....................Vote AMFA!!!!!!!!!!
 
Stop the Bus..I Want Off! said:
Sounds to me like the twu wants AMFA to roll over and die so they can go right down the toilet like we did. I'm sure that if NWA mechanics had our contract it would be 100% outsource, like the twu represented work at Zebco. The difference is, AMFA is doing everything a Union can do to protect it's members. AMFA has not agreed to anyone getting laid-off, unlike the twu has. Even as bad as you spin the AMFA to be, they are no worse than the twu. The twu has decimated the industry standard for the mechanics pay rates and benefits, and everyone else wants the same, regardless of their situation. You make it very hard for the other unions to properly represent their employees. This is why we need to be under one umbrella.
Here's to the twu..................
Setting the industry standard back 50+ years!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers................

Keep the Faith....................Vote AMFA!!!!!!!!!!

AMFA has not agreed to anyone getting laid-off, unlike the twu has. Even as bad as you spin the AMFA to be, they are no worse than the twu. The twu has decimated the industry standard for the mechanics pay rates and benefits, and everyone else wants the same, regardless of their situation.

See if you can sell that crap to the people at United!!

Can you say BANKRUPTCY???? :shock:
 
Now don't lose your wits now. Everyone but you knows that the AMFA at United is policing a contract that the iam negotiated. It won't be much longer and you'll be able to relax for awhile. We'll start taking care of the buisness end of things. We'll both sit back and watch how frustrated the AMFA is when they have to police our twu negotiated contract at AA. Sometimes it helps to take a deep breath and count to ten.........focus on breathing...................
Here's to the twu......................
"Please make them stop having their AMFA dogs...........Please........."
Cheers...............

Keep the Faith.........VOTE AMFA
 
PR tip 1 from Schnake, Schlong and Schlepper.
IF YOU CAN'T DAZZLE THEM WITH FACTS, BAFFLE THEM WITH BULLSHIT"!
:down:
 
cfr0046l.jpg


Nice image of you, CIO!
 
twuer said:
See if you can sell that crap to the people at United!!

Can you say BANKRUPTCY???? :shock:
United went into Bankruptcy under the IAM.
United closed two main bases under the IAM.

To put things in perspective, NO union or labor organization can stop a company from closing a maintenance base or bases. We see how Kansas City has remained open, barely. If a company has to lay off employees, it will do so. The TWU told us that if we took concessions there would be no layoffs.
We see how true that was. Now the guys on furlough will come back to work if they are fortunate enough with massive concessions that appear to have no end in sight. At least with NWA they held their ground. I would rather be on recall with NWA than American.



A.M.F.A. coming soon. :up:
 
To put things in perspective, NO union or labor organization can stop a company from closing a maintenance base or bases. We see how Kansas City has remained open, barely




Tell us how you see Kansas City has remained open? Let me start for you......its called involvement, Union involvement with the city government, proceeding to state level government, and LED BY ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF THE AFL-CIO.
YOu know as well as others, that MCI would have been closed by now, if not for the City of Kansas City, along with the state of Missouri, rushing to the aid of the workers, but also we all know that to have this kind of involvement did not come from a few members of the workforce and in noway, did AA canvass the city and state for help?
Can anyone tell us truthfully, what would have happened if AA were represented by AMFA? would we have been saved the same way? Doubtful dont you think?
 
All you need to look at is what is currently happening at MCI. The TWU took credit for keeping MCI up and running. But I hope everyone realizes that was a short term deal. The 737s are already leaving. MCI will be down to 700 mechanics this time next year. Just like the line stations, MCI will now experience the TWU's commitment to TULSA. They will do whatever it takes to keep the TUL people happy because that's where the votes are. This is why us line folks have nothing but contempt for the TWU. And please spare me the "TWU SAVES JOBS"

I would like to ask all TWU supporters how they felt starting in 1983, when the TWU took mechanics work in the name of pushbacks away. You probably didn't care because it didn't affect TUL. Same thing with deicing, it didn't affect you too much. But you sure as hell begin to feel it with the introduction of SRP's who were later on converted to OSM's. Tha affected you, did it not?

I hope all of you TWU supporters who feel that AMFA would sacrifice the overhaul bases have a real good feeling of what its like to be fearful of your job. The TWU has been sacrificing line maintenance work for years on ened to save TUL.
AMFA would not look to divide the line and the overhaul base as you are being brainwashed into believing.
 
Hopeful said:
AMFA would not look to divide the line and the overhaul base as you are being brainwashed into believing

Is this a dream of being hopeful? Do we have facts that AMFA would never do this?ANd who is "brainwashed" ?
Another so called AmFA fact with no background or backbone, any member at anytime can oust any officer of the local or national...........but as of yet, no one has come forward with facts of this being tried or if it has been, was the member successful? I hear, but what I hear are MYTHS, with no foundation of truth



All you need to look at is what is currently happening at MCI. The TWU took credit for keeping MCI up and running. But I hope everyone realizes that was a short term deal. The 737s are already leaving. MCI will be down to 700 mechanics this time next year. Just like the line stations, MCI will now experience the TWU's commitment to TULSA. They will do whatever it takes to keep the TUL people happy because that's where the votes are.


TWU did in deed keep MCI up and running, why would anyone dispute this? It has adequately been proven this i fact did happen. Yes your right, short term, but what in life is not short term? From what we hear at MCI, we could be getting back the 737's in as little as 6 months, word here is that Tulsa cnat do what MCI had been doing, somehting about more experineced mechanics, older mechanics? But no one here is tryig to take work from another brother or sister of our union. We didnt petition to raise taxes to save our jobs,
You claim TWU will do whatever to save Tulsa, because of thats where the votes are? Dont you think your giving TWU to much credit? One sentence you claim TWU is weak, then you say how strong the TWU because they can influence AA to do what TWU wants and says?



I hope all of you TWU supporters who feel that AMFA would sacrifice the overhaul bases


Sacrifice overhaul bases, I do beleive NW did i fact close its Atlanta base?