AMR STOCK PRICE
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[blockquote]
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On 9/20/2002 11:08:15 AM JS wrote:
You could compare market value, but even then, it's not a perfect comparison, because larger companies will have a larger market value, all else being equal.
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Aloha JS,
With AMR worth under $800 mil and JetBlue worth over $1.7 Bil, are you saying that JetBlue is over twice the size of AMR?
ALOHA 007
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On 9/20/2002 11:08:15 AM JS wrote:
You could compare market value, but even then, it's not a perfect comparison, because larger companies will have a larger market value, all else being equal.
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[/blockquote]
Aloha JS,
With AMR worth under $800 mil and JetBlue worth over $1.7 Bil, are you saying that JetBlue is over twice the size of AMR?
ALOHA 007
JS;
With no real assets Jet Blue may look big but as soon as things go bad, that bubble will burst.
With no real assets Jet Blue may look big but as soon as things go bad, that bubble will burst.
[blockquote]
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On 9/20/2002 11:08:15 AM JS wrote:
You could compare market value, but even then, it's not a perfect comparison, because larger companies will have a larger market value, all else being equal.
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[/blockquote]
Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No.
Aloha JS,
Im a bit confued. You say, larger companies will have a larger market value, all being equal. Well JetBlue is an airline, selling seats on a plane, AMR is an airline selling seats on a plane, pretty equal, as far as a company. So how do you explain the FACT that as of todays close, JetBlue market value, what really counts, is worth 3.21 TIMES the market value of AMR? You say Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No. So using your anology, larger companies will have a larger market value, is JetBlue over 3 times larger than AMR. If not whats your logic? How do you explain this?
WAR! UGH! What is it good for? ABSOLUTING NOTHING. Say it AGAIN.
ALHOA, 007
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On 9/20/2002 11:08:15 AM JS wrote:
You could compare market value, but even then, it's not a perfect comparison, because larger companies will have a larger market value, all else being equal.
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[/blockquote]
Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No.
Aloha JS,
Im a bit confued. You say, larger companies will have a larger market value, all being equal. Well JetBlue is an airline, selling seats on a plane, AMR is an airline selling seats on a plane, pretty equal, as far as a company. So how do you explain the FACT that as of todays close, JetBlue market value, what really counts, is worth 3.21 TIMES the market value of AMR? You say Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No. So using your anology, larger companies will have a larger market value, is JetBlue over 3 times larger than AMR. If not whats your logic? How do you explain this?
WAR! UGH! What is it good for? ABSOLUTING NOTHING. Say it AGAIN.
ALHOA, 007
I think someone is being teased
Market cap is more bragging, sounds good, means little! Wall Street has sold us down the river, but I digress. Price x Number of shares=Market Cap. Due to AMR trading low and jetBlue high, jetBlue's market cap is more than AMR. B6's market cap is currently around 2Billion, give or take. Does not mean much, other than at present jetBlue stock is considered more valuable than AMR, this of course based on pure speculation from investors. Will AMR go chapter 11, probably not, will jetBlue be the next SWA,who knows?
But you already knew that, did you not?
Bob Owens,
Have you looked around lately, how much worse can it get?
Market cap is more bragging, sounds good, means little! Wall Street has sold us down the river, but I digress. Price x Number of shares=Market Cap. Due to AMR trading low and jetBlue high, jetBlue's market cap is more than AMR. B6's market cap is currently around 2Billion, give or take. Does not mean much, other than at present jetBlue stock is considered more valuable than AMR, this of course based on pure speculation from investors. Will AMR go chapter 11, probably not, will jetBlue be the next SWA,who knows?
But you already knew that, did you not?
Bob Owens,
Have you looked around lately, how much worse can it get?
Deisel8;
How much worse can it get?
For Jet-Blue? AA and UA matching or beating fares on the exact same routes. Can JetBlue go head to head with the big carriers? Lets look at some past examples- Air Florida, Peoples Express, Capitol, Arrow, Laker. Some of these extinct carriers were all the rave at one time, yet they are all gone. Odds are that Jet Blue will follow.
How much worse can it get?
For Jet-Blue? AA and UA matching or beating fares on the exact same routes. Can JetBlue go head to head with the big carriers? Lets look at some past examples- Air Florida, Peoples Express, Capitol, Arrow, Laker. Some of these extinct carriers were all the rave at one time, yet they are all gone. Odds are that Jet Blue will follow.
JS
Veteran
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On 9/24/2002 10:29:18 PM TWAFA007 wrote:
Aloha JS,
Im a bit confued. You say, "larger companies will have a larger market value, all being equal." Well JetBlue is an airline, selling seats on a plane, AMR is an airline selling seats on a plane, pretty equal, as far as a company. So how do you explain the FACT that as of todays close, JetBlue market value, what really counts, is worth 3.21 TIMES the market value of AMR? You say "Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No." So using your anology, "larger companies will have a larger market value," is JetBlue over 3 times larger than AMR. If not whats your logic? How do you explain this?
WAR! UGH! What is it good for? ABSOLUTING NOTHING. Say it AGAIN."
ALHOA, 007
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[/blockquote]
JetBlue (or Southwest) and AA are very different airlines. The product is similar, but their operations, within the context of airlines, is about as different as can be.
What I mean is this -- suppose you have two corporations producing the same thing (air travel or anything else), they both have the same unit costs and the same unit revenues (same profit margin), but one produces three times the number of items (e.g., seat-miles) as the other. The market cap of the first one should be three times the market cap of the second.
If the two companies are different in other ways, especially in terms of unit costs, then the comparison is not that simple.
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On 9/24/2002 10:29:18 PM TWAFA007 wrote:
Aloha JS,
Im a bit confued. You say, "larger companies will have a larger market value, all being equal." Well JetBlue is an airline, selling seats on a plane, AMR is an airline selling seats on a plane, pretty equal, as far as a company. So how do you explain the FACT that as of todays close, JetBlue market value, what really counts, is worth 3.21 TIMES the market value of AMR? You say "Twice the market value? Yes. Twice the operations (assets, planes, seat-miles, etc.)? No." So using your anology, "larger companies will have a larger market value," is JetBlue over 3 times larger than AMR. If not whats your logic? How do you explain this?
WAR! UGH! What is it good for? ABSOLUTING NOTHING. Say it AGAIN."
ALHOA, 007
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[/blockquote]
JetBlue (or Southwest) and AA are very different airlines. The product is similar, but their operations, within the context of airlines, is about as different as can be.
What I mean is this -- suppose you have two corporations producing the same thing (air travel or anything else), they both have the same unit costs and the same unit revenues (same profit margin), but one produces three times the number of items (e.g., seat-miles) as the other. The market cap of the first one should be three times the market cap of the second.
If the two companies are different in other ways, especially in terms of unit costs, then the comparison is not that simple.
[blockquote]
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On 10/2/2002 9:12:05 PM Bob Owens wrote:
Lets look at some past examples- Air Florida, Peoples Express, Capitol, Arrow, Laker. Some of these extinct carriers were all the rave at one time, yet they are all gone. Odds are that Jet Blue will follow.
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Laker is gone, as is Air Florida, but those are the only ones in your example who didn't make it.
Arrow is still around last time I checked. See for yourself at [a href=http://www.arrowair.com/]http://www.arrowair.com/[/a].
So is People Express, albeit as part of Continental. That nice little EWR hub that CO now has was ours, and always will be!
Likewise for Capitol, but as part of UAL now.
Now, had you used Western Pacific, Markair, Midway I and II, Braniff II and III, MGM, UltrAir, Tower, or Kiwi as examples, you'd be right on target.
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On 10/2/2002 9:12:05 PM Bob Owens wrote:
Lets look at some past examples- Air Florida, Peoples Express, Capitol, Arrow, Laker. Some of these extinct carriers were all the rave at one time, yet they are all gone. Odds are that Jet Blue will follow.
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[/blockquote]
Laker is gone, as is Air Florida, but those are the only ones in your example who didn't make it.
Arrow is still around last time I checked. See for yourself at [a href=http://www.arrowair.com/]http://www.arrowair.com/[/a].
So is People Express, albeit as part of Continental. That nice little EWR hub that CO now has was ours, and always will be!
Likewise for Capitol, but as part of UAL now.
Now, had you used Western Pacific, Markair, Midway I and II, Braniff II and III, MGM, UltrAir, Tower, or Kiwi as examples, you'd be right on target.
Bob,
Yes, they are plenty of now defunt carriers, sad as that is, but history does not always repeat itself.
Can jetBlue go head to head with UAL and AA, even with their lowered cost structure, provided they get one, I think the answer is yes. Does jetBlue seek to go this route, not really. Seems more like AA and UAL wants to compete with jetBlue, while loosing money I might add. Obviously, jetBlue is a young company, so the cost structure is a lot lower and even with low fares, the entity is making money.
The network carriers should worry a whole lot more about each other, than a company with 30 airplanes. Now with the UAL/U codeshare, it will be interesting to see if DAL/CAL/NWA gets approved, either which way, Leo Mullins has said he is going to war. AA is starting their own shuttle out of LGA. NWA refusing to match fare raises.
Nope, my humble opinion is, that barring anything thing unpredictable, jetBlue will be able to hold its own.
Besides, from a consumer point of view, you want airlines to compete for your business. The airlines themselves just have to figure out a way to make a profit, while competing.
Yes, they are plenty of now defunt carriers, sad as that is, but history does not always repeat itself.
Can jetBlue go head to head with UAL and AA, even with their lowered cost structure, provided they get one, I think the answer is yes. Does jetBlue seek to go this route, not really. Seems more like AA and UAL wants to compete with jetBlue, while loosing money I might add. Obviously, jetBlue is a young company, so the cost structure is a lot lower and even with low fares, the entity is making money.
The network carriers should worry a whole lot more about each other, than a company with 30 airplanes. Now with the UAL/U codeshare, it will be interesting to see if DAL/CAL/NWA gets approved, either which way, Leo Mullins has said he is going to war. AA is starting their own shuttle out of LGA. NWA refusing to match fare raises.
Nope, my humble opinion is, that barring anything thing unpredictable, jetBlue will be able to hold its own.
Besides, from a consumer point of view, you want airlines to compete for your business. The airlines themselves just have to figure out a way to make a profit, while competing.
KCFlyer
Veteran
[BLOCKQUOTE]---------------[BR]On 10/3/2002 10:03:35 AM Diesel8 wrote:[BR][BR]Bob,[BR][BR]Yes, they are plenty of now defunt carriers, sad as that is, but history does not always repeat itself.[BR][BR]Can jetBlue go head to head with UAL and AA, even with their lowered cost structure, provided they get one, I think the answer is yes. Does jetBlue seek to go this route, not really. Seems more like AA and UAL wants to compete with jetBlue, while loosing money I might add. Obviously, jetBlue is a young company, so the cost structure is a lot lower and even with low fares, the entity is making money.[BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]Something that might be interesting to see...What are the loads like on the morning JFK-LGB flights on AA? And how does that compare to the loads on the morning JFK-LAX? And how many of the passengers on the LGB flight are the Walmart, backpacking, families with crying babies versus the passengers who look as though they might be flying on business? The only reason I wonder is because the a one way JFK-LGB fare for tomorrow is $161 before taxes and the one way JFK-LAX one way fare for tomorrow is $964 before taxes. My guess is that the drive from LGB to downtown LA is worth the $800 savings. [/BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]Something that might be interesting to see...What are the loads like on the morning JFK-LGB flights on AA? And how does that compare to the loads on the morning JFK-LAX? And how many of the passengers on the LGB flight are the Walmart, backpacking, families with crying babies versus the passengers who look as though they might be flying on business? The only reason I wonder is because the a one way JFK-LGB fare for tomorrow is $161 before taxes and the one way JFK-LAX one way fare for tomorrow is $964 before taxes. My guess is that the drive from LGB to downtown LA is worth the $800 savings. [/BLOCKQUOTE]
eolesen;
Capital was bought by UAL before deregulation. Capitol was a different airline that was a charter operation until deregulation, it went scheduled for a few years before it went bust. Some guy by the name of George Batchelor owned it and Arrow. Arrow no longer flies passengers. I beleive that Arrow took what was left of Capitol, but I'm not sure.
Peoples Express was dying. Continental picked it up cheap. How much profit did Peoples Express employees make off the stock they were forced to purchase?
Capital was bought by UAL before deregulation. Capitol was a different airline that was a charter operation until deregulation, it went scheduled for a few years before it went bust. Some guy by the name of George Batchelor owned it and Arrow. Arrow no longer flies passengers. I beleive that Arrow took what was left of Capitol, but I'm not sure.
Peoples Express was dying. Continental picked it up cheap. How much profit did Peoples Express employees make off the stock they were forced to purchase?
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On 10/3/2002 7
40 PM Bob Owens wrote:
How much profit did Peoples Express employees make off the stock they were forced to purchase?
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Aloha Bob,
That was one of my best stock gains. At the time CAL gave some kind of a split. Like 1 share of CAL for 6 of Peoples & some B Class stock. At the time it was a huge loss. CAL was under $5 a share at the time, I think. Please dont quote my numbers it was a long time ago. I held on & sold when CAL climbed over $50 a share. What was once a big loss turn out to be a big profit. Any other old Peoples, people, remember the details? The Peoples stock was a lot better deal then the stock I got from TWA that covers one of my walls.
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On 10/3/2002 7
40 PM Bob Owens wrote: How much profit did Peoples Express employees make off the stock they were forced to purchase?
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[/blockquote]
Aloha Bob,
That was one of my best stock gains. At the time CAL gave some kind of a split. Like 1 share of CAL for 6 of Peoples & some B Class stock. At the time it was a huge loss. CAL was under $5 a share at the time, I think. Please dont quote my numbers it was a long time ago. I held on & sold when CAL climbed over $50 a share. What was once a big loss turn out to be a big profit. Any other old Peoples, people, remember the details? The Peoples stock was a lot better deal then the stock I got from TWA that covers one of my walls.
TWAFA007;
Good for you. You were fortunate. I doubt that most PEX workers could hold on that long.
Good for you. You were fortunate. I doubt that most PEX workers could hold on that long.
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