Can one of you AMTs explain the difference in job functions between an AA maintenance supervisor and a CC? Looking at the job postings on Jetnet I've seen several posting for supervisors and engineers up in TUL, I'm just curious what these people do. Thanks.
Amt Cc Vs. Supervisor
- Thread starter Oneflyer
- Start date
Oneflyer said:
Not much difference between CC and Supervisor except one is suppose to be union(note...there are some good CC's) and other is not. With the hiring of clerks to handle time and attendence, there is much overlap in the job functions. Being that job assignments come from the crew chief, you could eliminate many supervisor positions. Same would hold true for the fleet service side with all the CSM's. An engineer is a necessary evil for the fact that he can authorize the non-maintenance manual repairs that often occur, especially in overhaul. This work could be done through Boeing or Airbus depending upon the fleet type, but the turn time on the repair authorization would most likely be rather long.
Wretched Wrench
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Where I work, the CC answers the phone, assigns mechs, alerts mechs to problems radioed in from aircraft.
The supervisor, if he is present, watches the TV in his office and deals with any big problems that come up. If he is not present, the shift manager deals with the big problems by phone. Our supervisors appear to be on flex time, so we do without them a lot.
The supervisor, if he is present, watches the TV in his office and deals with any big problems that come up. If he is not present, the shift manager deals with the big problems by phone. Our supervisors appear to be on flex time, so we do without them a lot.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
In SAN I was until this past Thursday one of two CCs on nights. I just self de-moted. Since AA seems it to costly to have a CC on Afternoons my job responsibilities increased. The CCs would start 15 minutes before the Night Shift Crew to get a head start on things but 15 minutes is nothing. I mostly started 30 minutes before the Crew came on shift.
I would make sure all 8 RON a/c inspection paperwork matched the Final Workload Assignment. (We now have 9 RON a/c.) If the paperwork didn't match I would have to print the correct paperwork. I would also make sure that the "pre-FMRs" were printed for the scheduled RON a/c. Having the correct "pre-FMR runs" helped in how I assigned AMTs. Since there is no Afternoon CC I would see if any parts not ordered by the Day Shift CC are in stock and if not whether or not parts should be sent in from LAX or bought locally from another airline.
Once I had all the paperwork aligned I would assing the usual 8 or 9 AMTs on shift to the a/c. I would try and keep in mind who had a "bad" a/c the night before and who was on their Friday. Not everyone is LMP qualified and or engine run qualified so assignments might seem unfair to some.
I would have to also review the logbooks and make sure all the items are entered. This is not always the case. At stations like ORD, JFK, DFW there are clerks paid to enter the green sheets. (These are the pages removed from the logbooks after maintenance is done.) But for some unknown reason these pages are not always entered and I must spend time on each of these books to get them up to date so a "Final FMR Run" can be printed so the AMT knows what is deferred, a PRIORITY item or a new Pirep.
If any inbound Pirep or AMT discovered discrepancy needs to be placarded INOP. the CC mostly calls in for the Deferral if the MEL allows it. The CC will also help order parts, look up paperwork in the MM, IPC or FIM manuals to assist the AMT since most nights one AMT will be assigned two a/c.
If there are no sick calls and the RON inspections & open items are within reason things are OK. But mostly this is not the case. To continue a PRIORITY ITEM the MOD most give the OK. If too many A Checks are issued I will try and have one reduced to a PS or SIC 0922. I also answer the phone and monitor the radio for any Crew Calls or Ramp discovered reports requiring AMTs.
We have one supervisor in SAN. His primary function is to make the shift bid and counsel you on your sick time. He works primarily Days but he has on occaison second guess the Night Shift CCs on why certain work wasn't accomplished. Not only do we not have a Afternoon CC but a lot of the time we do not have a Stock Clerk on Afternoons either. Afternoons is when you have a better idea of which a/c will RON so parts can be ordered.
I self de-moted because I am tired of doing a second CCs work as well as put in logpages that are to be entered by another person at another station whos sole function is to enter these sheets. I understand completely the crappy morale at work, both in SAN and systemwide because of the BS "Shared Sacrifice" reaming we took. I am tired of being resonsible for a work environement that has suffered and being the CC I can only do so much to prevent it from further deterioration. With AMTs retireing or taking the Stand Instead and NOT replacing these AMTs has not helped morale either. (The other Nightshift CC was filled due to the previous CC retireing. We were told that if this position was filled by a SAN AMT that AMT's position would be filled by a recall. Well, we were lied to. After a SAN got the CC bid we were told that all of a sudden we were one AMT overmanned so the successful bid of the local AMT took care of that.)
Another reason I self demoted was because I do not respect our supervisor or his boss and am simply tired of the lousy CC pay. It is simply not worth the trouble of the environement AA has created in maintenance.
This is what a Line Station CC does on Night Shift. A main hub works slightly different because there are supervisors on nights and they have certain responsibilities a CC does not handle.
I would make sure all 8 RON a/c inspection paperwork matched the Final Workload Assignment. (We now have 9 RON a/c.) If the paperwork didn't match I would have to print the correct paperwork. I would also make sure that the "pre-FMRs" were printed for the scheduled RON a/c. Having the correct "pre-FMR runs" helped in how I assigned AMTs. Since there is no Afternoon CC I would see if any parts not ordered by the Day Shift CC are in stock and if not whether or not parts should be sent in from LAX or bought locally from another airline.
Once I had all the paperwork aligned I would assing the usual 8 or 9 AMTs on shift to the a/c. I would try and keep in mind who had a "bad" a/c the night before and who was on their Friday. Not everyone is LMP qualified and or engine run qualified so assignments might seem unfair to some.
I would have to also review the logbooks and make sure all the items are entered. This is not always the case. At stations like ORD, JFK, DFW there are clerks paid to enter the green sheets. (These are the pages removed from the logbooks after maintenance is done.) But for some unknown reason these pages are not always entered and I must spend time on each of these books to get them up to date so a "Final FMR Run" can be printed so the AMT knows what is deferred, a PRIORITY item or a new Pirep.
If any inbound Pirep or AMT discovered discrepancy needs to be placarded INOP. the CC mostly calls in for the Deferral if the MEL allows it. The CC will also help order parts, look up paperwork in the MM, IPC or FIM manuals to assist the AMT since most nights one AMT will be assigned two a/c.
If there are no sick calls and the RON inspections & open items are within reason things are OK. But mostly this is not the case. To continue a PRIORITY ITEM the MOD most give the OK. If too many A Checks are issued I will try and have one reduced to a PS or SIC 0922. I also answer the phone and monitor the radio for any Crew Calls or Ramp discovered reports requiring AMTs.
We have one supervisor in SAN. His primary function is to make the shift bid and counsel you on your sick time. He works primarily Days but he has on occaison second guess the Night Shift CCs on why certain work wasn't accomplished. Not only do we not have a Afternoon CC but a lot of the time we do not have a Stock Clerk on Afternoons either. Afternoons is when you have a better idea of which a/c will RON so parts can be ordered.
I self de-moted because I am tired of doing a second CCs work as well as put in logpages that are to be entered by another person at another station whos sole function is to enter these sheets. I understand completely the crappy morale at work, both in SAN and systemwide because of the BS "Shared Sacrifice" reaming we took. I am tired of being resonsible for a work environement that has suffered and being the CC I can only do so much to prevent it from further deterioration. With AMTs retireing or taking the Stand Instead and NOT replacing these AMTs has not helped morale either. (The other Nightshift CC was filled due to the previous CC retireing. We were told that if this position was filled by a SAN AMT that AMT's position would be filled by a recall. Well, we were lied to. After a SAN got the CC bid we were told that all of a sudden we were one AMT overmanned so the successful bid of the local AMT took care of that.)
Another reason I self demoted was because I do not respect our supervisor or his boss and am simply tired of the lousy CC pay. It is simply not worth the trouble of the environement AA has created in maintenance.
This is what a Line Station CC does on Night Shift. A main hub works slightly different because there are supervisors on nights and they have certain responsibilities a CC does not handle.
--------------------------------------------Oneflyer said:
Oneflyer,
The difference varies based on when the Supervisor was hired.
If the Supervisor was hired before the "without ratification" deal was imposed by the TWU, they received a 10% premium on top of the employee scale along with vacation; since Management gave back a percentage of the TWU, along with no reduction in vacation, that amounts to a large amount.
If the Supervisor was hired after the "without ratification" deal imposed by the TWU, they recieved a 10% premium on top of the reduced employee scale along with vacation; not as big a bump but still substantial.
As to the question of merit v. seniority; all one has to do is look at the TCC positions compared with the positions granted Supervision. There is not enough room on any bulletin board to cover that much ground.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Oneflyer said:
Oneflyer,
The pay is like Buck said, $1.75 an hour extra. After taxes this doesn't come anywhere close to the responsibilities an AMT takes on when taking a CC position.
I was told that in the previous contract negotiations prior to the concessions the company approached the union and said they wanted to change the way CCs were picked. They wanted to go from seniority based to interview based. The company also said they would raise CC pay to $5.00 hour from the current $1.75 an hour. I respect the individual who told me this information. The union said no way. Seniority is the way of the airlines and they did not want to give this up.
I believe that the senority based way of picking CCs is not perfect. I have seen AMTs get CC positions based solely on their seniority only to see the operation suffer. But then again, if the company can pick and choose people like they do for management positions would it be any better?
Mostly AMTs have bid CC slots to improove their retirement pay. Since it was the highest 5 years pay out of the last 10 years of employment that you used to calculate your retirement pay. It also was a way for older AMts to get off the floor. I have 19 years with AA so my retirement is a ways off. I took it because I thought I could make a difference for the better. My crew on nights all told me I did a good job as their CC and understand why I self demoted.
Had the CC pay been $5.00 an hour more I more than likely would have stayed on as a CC for a bit longer.
This is truely where union leadership does a disservice to its membership. Not only does the membership make less than they would, but with the current system the company is obligated to hire supervisors to supervise the bad CCs.
$5.00 an hour is what I would think would be reasonable to make the job attractive pay wise for the added responsibility.
I've been in the interview process multiple times, being both the interviewer & interviewee, and in general the process works well. At least at HDQ, for level 2-4 positions the best qualified person typically gets the job and very often its not the most senior person. So yes, I think it would be a much better system, I would think a seniority/merit combo would work well, say 10-15 years minimum experience to qualify with an interview process once if you qualify.
Oneflyer said:
Truth be known, the recent self-demotion saw more good experienced crew chiefs down-grading and being replaced by the most junior people. Honestly the job just isn't worth it. Every other field pays at least 10% for their leader, for us it's around 5%. Of course most other fields pay a percentage for afternoon and midnight shift work, AA pays 1 cent and 2 cents an hour for afts and mids. :down:
goingboeing
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The CC premium is not near enough compensation for the responsibilities that you take on as a CC.
I have been pre-qualified as a CC since 1995 but will not take the job on a permanent basis because of the undercompensation for the job.
The best way to figure out whether or not you like the CC job is to try to get a temporary CC bid.
I would recommend against a CC job if you are looking at the money only.
I have been pre-qualified as a CC since 1995 but will not take the job on a permanent basis because of the undercompensation for the job.
The best way to figure out whether or not you like the CC job is to try to get a temporary CC bid.
I would recommend against a CC job if you are looking at the money only.
My CSM will call me once a day and ask " is everything ok". Some days I do not get a call at all and have no clue who my CSM for that day is.
I run an office that assigns flights to be be worked by AA personel. I have a non-CC office assistant who mainly pulls paperwork for me. I handle about 60 to 66 fl a day. It is more than just 8 fl an hour. Some factors are arr time early or late, assigning lunches on staggard sifts that start at 12:00, 13:00, 14:30, & 15:00. Its like frying eggs on a hot griddle in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on a rocking rolling ship.
Pluggin holes here and hoping this crew gets back to work that early in bound. Well you get the idea . Its a real mad house at times. :blink:
I run an office that assigns flights to be be worked by AA personel. I have a non-CC office assistant who mainly pulls paperwork for me. I handle about 60 to 66 fl a day. It is more than just 8 fl an hour. Some factors are arr time early or late, assigning lunches on staggard sifts that start at 12:00, 13:00, 14:30, & 15:00. Its like frying eggs on a hot griddle in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on a rocking rolling ship.
Pluggin holes here and hoping this crew gets back to work that early in bound. Well you get the idea . Its a real mad house at times. :blink:
Decision 2004
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Oneflyer said:
So AA removed 62 management positions, and now they are already re-hiring?
"SHOW US THE SHARED SACRAFICE" ?
Another lame TWU slogan on a t-shirt?
