Apa, Chq, And The Emb-170

[AA80Driver]

You're right. Make it as difficult as possible on AA, so that as soon as you retire and take you're lump sum pay out, AA is forced out of business by leaner competition. Thats really the idea, suck as much out of AA as you can before you leave.

Lets be honest here, this is just a power play by the APA. They feel like they have to show AMR that they are still powerful after renegeotiating their contract last year. They need to show that "They won't be pushed around".

How difficult would this make it on AA if they pulled the plug on CHQ. We're talking about ~ 15 E-140's worth of flying out of STL. With the elimination of many scope restrictions, AE should be able to pick up this flying.

FWIW I have 20+ years left with AA, so I want AA to prosper as much as anyone. But it doesn't do me any good if AA prospers and I (or my peers) don't share in it. I'm all for taking steps to make the airline competitive in this environment. "Pull together, win together". IMO CHQ can watch the win together part from the sidelines.

What is it that causes you such contempt for the people that work everyday to make this airline run.

 

[Winglet]

"Lets be honest here, this is just a power play by the APA. They feel like they have to show AMR that they are still powerful after renegeotiating their contract last year. They need to show that "They won't be pushed around". "

Well, yes, ONEFLYER, I suppose so. But then again, why is Arpey pushing the APA around? It called a legal contract. Seems when you think that when AMR should abide by contract terms, it's not fair. I know you'd just wish labor would take whatever the rich execs dictate, no matter what they signed in a legal contract.

According to your life's philosophy, seems abiding by legal contractural agreements are only for the "little people."

So far it appears that "Work Together, Win Together" is just another cheap slogan from the CEO School of Cynical Labor Relations.

 

[FWAAA]

So the APA will stick it to AA just because it's in the contract and they can.

Beautiful.

So AA dumps Republic and contracts with someone else.

So tell me, exactly, how does that improve the APA's position? You still don't get to fly the 70 seaters. AA will still have SOMEONE flying the 50 seaters, and it probably won't be Eagle.

As I said earlier, a distinction without a difference.

What real difference does it make if Fly By Night Airways flys the 50 seaters for AX or if AA were to contract with Delta to have one of its wholly owned subs like ASA or Comair fly the 50 seaters?

None. So once again the APA intends to waste everyone's time and AA's money just because it can.

Nice.

 

[will fix for food]

AE . . . . family? AE people hate AA. Go to some of the AE boards and you'll see some of the vile names they call AA employees. With the amount of flying that's getting transferred to AE, I want a divorce. I be happy if AMR would sell AE.

"AE people hate AA"

Which is so unreasonable given all the love that AA employees have shown Eagle employees the last 15 or so years.

"With the amount of flying that's getting transferred to AE, I want a divorce. I be happy if AMR would sell AE."

Eagle employees are right there with you pal. However I somehow doubt that AMR would sell it's only profitable airline division.

 

[Mach85ER]

So once again the APA intends to waste everyone's time and AA's money just because it can.

Get real. Who is the mindless fools here? AA or APA?

At the end of the 1992-1997 pilot negotiations, APA offered to fly the RJ's at the prevailing market rate. AA, in it's mindless quest to sink the unions rather than work together said, "FU", we will just end run APA's 50 seat restrictions.

They went out and bought how many 44 seaters?

Now think about it, Embraer spent how much to remove a fuselage plug in the 50 seater and recertify it down to 44 seats? The end result is an airplane that no doubt cost just the same as a 50 seater, and generated 6 less seats of potential revenue each leg just to get around APA's pilot costs which would have been far less than those 6 seats. This doesn't even address the eventual loss of resale vale on a fleet of bastard airplanes (look for that in the SEC reports )

 

[Winglet]

AA needs a 100+/- seat aircraft badly, yet management has been playing this "we're not interested" game with AA workers. Another part of the "win together" campaign.

As far as AE making the profits, well . . . . . accounting at US corporations is quite "creative" these days. If you were a exec, and you had one labor group working for compensation and no retirement that was already towards the bottom of the barrel and still had 9 years to go on a sweetheart contract but flying very small high seat cost airplanes, and you had another group at much higher compensation that you wanted to eliminate costly pensions and still felt you could squeeze for some more concessions . . . . where would you funnel you shift your profit reporting?

 

[AA80Driver]

AA needs a 100+/- seat aircraft badly, yet management has been playing this "we're not interested" game with AA workers. Another part of the "win together" campaign.

As far as AE making the profits, well . . . . . accounting at US corporations is quite "creative" these days. If you were a exec, and you had one labor group working for compensation and no retirement that was already towards the bottom of the barrel and still had 9 years to go on a sweetheart contract but flying very small high seat cost airplanes, and you had another group at much higher compensation that you wanted to eliminate costly pensions and still felt you could squeeze for some more concessions . . . . where would you funnel you shift your profit reporting?

2Q 04 regionals generated 505M revenue vs 517M operating expense. Reference AMR 10Q.

 

[Oneflyer]

I know you'd just wish labor would take whatever the rich execs dictate, no matter what they signed in a legal contract.

Funny how pilots make more than a lot of those rich execs you reference and work a lot less.

 

[Oneflyer]

APA's pilot costs which would have been far less than those 6 seats.

Um, no. If the cost had been less then AA wouldn't have done what they did. That is the nice thing about financial analysis, its unemotional. Contrary to what you believe AMR is far more concerned about making money than screwing the pilots.

 

[will fix for food]

Update - July 21, 2004



TO: American Eagle Colleagues

Today, AMR released its second quarter results, reporting improved financial performance. For the three months ending June 30, AMR reported a net profit of $6 million. However, the second quarter included some special one-time adjustments. Excluding those items, AMR lost $25 million April through June. Detailed information can be found in a letter from American CEO Gerard Arpey, and in a news release, both available on Jetnet.

Eagle Second Quarter Accomplishments

As a result of your efforts, American Eagle recorded a solid quarter, earning a pre-tax margin of 9.2 percent, 1.2 points above our plan of 8 percent. This allowed us to make a positive contribution to AMR's second quarter results. During April to June, Eagle's ASMs grew 25.1 percent over the same period last year, while passengers grew 21.0 percent. Load factor is a good story, up 4.1 points to 69.7 percent as compared to 65.6 percent in the same quarter last year.

We carried 4.5 million passengers in the quarter who generated $448 million in revenue on Eagle flights. Just over 51 percent of those customers, or over 2.3 million people, went on and connected to an American flight. These connecting customers generated $352 million in revenue on American for the three-month period. All of us at Eagle can take pride in the fact that we made a strong contribution to American's Turnaround Plan in the second quarter and, as a result, improved the chances of the long-term success of American, Eagle, and AMR.





Peter Bowler

 

[AA80Driver]

Update - July 21, 2004



TO: American Eagle Colleagues

Today, AMR released its second quarter results, reporting improved financial performance. For the three months ending June 30, AMR reported a net profit of $6 million. However, the second quarter included some special one-time adjustments. Excluding those items, AMR lost $25 million April through June. Detailed information can be found in a letter from American CEO Gerard Arpey, and in a news release, both available on Jetnet.

Eagle Second Quarter Accomplishments

As a result of your efforts, American Eagle recorded a solid quarter, earning a pre-tax margin of 9.2 percent, 1.2 points above our plan of 8 percent. This allowed us to make a positive contribution to AMR's second quarter results. During April to June, Eagle's ASMs grew 25.1 percent over the same period last year, while passengers grew 21.0 percent. Load factor is a good story, up 4.1 points to 69.7 percent as compared to 65.6 percent in the same quarter last year.

We carried 4.5 million passengers in the quarter who generated $448 million in revenue on Eagle flights. Just over 51 percent of those customers, or over 2.3 million people, went on and connected to an American flight. These connecting customers generated $352 million in revenue on American for the three-month period. All of us at Eagle can take pride in the fact that we made a strong contribution to American's Turnaround Plan in the second quarter and, as a result, improved the chances of the long-term success of American, Eagle, and AMR.





Peter Bowler

Fee for departure makes it tough to hit that taget margin. Spin aside, bottom line contributions of regional affilieates for 2Q were 505M revenue and 517M operating expense. Source: AMR Corp 2QTR 10Q.

 

[AAviator]

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040722/amr10-q.html

The 505M, and 517M are about 3/4 of the way down the page.

I didn't know Eagle was leasing 10 RJ's to TSA.

532M went out the door for the first 6 months to buy 14 EMB's and 5 CRJ-700's. Thats around 25mil for the EMB, and 32 on the CRJ? And all APA's fault. tsk tsk... h34r:

 

[FWAAA]

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040722/amr10-q.html

The 505M, and 517M are about 3/4 of the way down the page.

I didn't know Eagle was leasing 10 RJ's to TSA.

532M went out the door for the first 6 months to buy 14 EMB's and 5 CRJ-700's. Thats around 25mil for the EMB, and 32 on the CRJ? And all APA's fault. tsk tsk... h34r:

Your cost estimates per aircraft are on the high side.

AMR acquired 18 ERJs (not 14) and 5 CRJs during the first half of the year.

Capital expenditures for the first six months of 2004 were $532 million and included the acquisition of 18 Embraer 145 and five Bombardier CRJ-700 aircraft.

"Included" is the key word here.

The $532 million covers ALL AMR capex for the first half, not just aircraft. AA buys a lot more capital goods than just airplanes. B)

ERJs run closer to $20 million per copy, and the CRJs are around $25 million.

The 10 ERJs were leased to TSA when AE was in danger of exceeding its old ASM limit (pre-concessions), but the ploy didn't work, as APA won the grievance over the AX reverse code-share arrangement anyway.

 

[Cleared Direct]

AGREEMENT
between
AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.
and
THE AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.
as represented by the
ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION
Effective: May 1, 2003


SECTION 1

RECOGNITION AND SCOPE

B. Definitions

4. Commuter Air Carrier

The term "Commuter Air Carrier" refers to any Air Carrier utilizing only (a)
aircraft that are certificated in the United States and Europe with a maximum
passenger capacity of 50 passenger seats or fewer and (B) aircraft that are not
certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than
64,500 pounds. If an aircraft type operated by an Air Carrier otherwise meeting
the conditions in the preceding sentence is recertified with a maximum
passenger capacity of greater than 50 passenger seats, the Air Carrier
operating said aircraft shall remain a Commuter Air Carrier so long as it
operates said aircraft with no more than 50 passenger seats.

C. SCOPE

1. General.

All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be
performed by pilots on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List in accordance
with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, except as expressly permitted
in provisions D. – K. below.

D. Scope Exception: Commuter Air Carriers

1. Commuter Air Carriers and Section 1 Limitations.

The Company or an Affiliate may create, acquire, maintain an equity position
in, enter into franchise type agreements with, and/or codeshare with a
Commuter Air Carrier, and flying by any such Commuter Air Carrier shall not
be subject to the limitations of Section 1.C. above, so long as any such
Commuter Air Carrier operates in accordance with the limitations set forth in
this Section 1.D.

2. American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc.

American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc. may operate, in the
aggregate, no more than 43 ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft
certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity
of between 51 and 70 seats, without losing their status as Commuter Air
Carriers.

3. Purpose; Intent of the Parties.


a. Primary Purpose.

The primary purpose of a Commuter Air Carrier is either to provide
passenger and/or cargo revenue feed to Company flights and/or to enhance
the Company’s overall market presence.

b. Role of Commuter Air Carriers in Company’s Development.

The parties recognize that Commuter Air Carriers have played a role in the
development of the Company as the world’s premier airline. Additionally,
the Company and the Association acknowledge that the passenger feed
provided to the Company’s domestic and international system strengthens
the Company, thereby providing enhanced career opportunities to American
Airlines pilots.

c. Markets in Which the Company Cannot Earn an Adequate Return on
Invested Capital

The Company will operate American Airlines service in markets where such
service can earn an adequate return on invested capital. This provision will
not require the Company to operate a particular service, but instead, if the
Company could operate a service and earn an adequate return on invested
capital, the Company may not place or maintain the Company code on such
service by a Commuter Air Carrier. Notwithstanding this prohibition, if the
Company orders additional aircraft to fly such a route, the Company may
place or maintain its code on the route or frequency during the time
between order and delivery of the additional aircraft. Similarly, if the
Company is procuring an airport slot, gate and/or other route authority to fly
such a route, the Company may place or maintain its code on the route or
frequency during the time required to procure such a slot and/or authority.

d. Parties to Meet in the Event of Problems.

It is not the intent of either the Company or the Association to limit the
expansion of Commuter Air Carriers in developing new markets. If at any
time it is determined that these provisions are impeding the ability of
Commuter Air Carriers to fulfill their primary role in support of the
Company’s system, the parties agree to promptly meet and discuss
appropriate modifications to this Agreement.

---------------------------------------

LETTER JJ (6)

AmericanAirlines®

September 22, 2003
Captain John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association
14600 Trinity Boulevard, Suite 500
Fort Worth, TX 76155

Re: Trans States Airlines – ATR Exception (Section 1.D.2)

Dear John:

This letter modifies the agreement between the Allied Pilots Association (“APAâ€) and American Airlines, Inc. (“Companyâ€) dated May 1, 2003 regarding Section 1 - Scope. Specifically, the parties agree to make an exception in which Trans States Airlines (“TSAâ€) may operate, in aggregate, no more than three (3) ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity of between 51 and 70 seats, in the American Connection Operation in STL without losing its status as a Commuter Air Carrier.

The parties also agree that TSA may replace and/or substitute these aircraft with like or similar aircraft.

Sincerely,
/signed/
Mark L. Burdette
Director - Employee Relations
Agreed:
/signed/
John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

AA needs a 100+/- seat aircraft badly

Good thing they sent all those TWA 717's back to Boeing isnt it?

Air Tran is enjoying the hell out of them..probably even deploying them on some of that new service out of DFW.

I love this complaining about low cost carriers, then AA turns around and helps one with their fleet renewal program.

Boeing would sell their souls to get the 717 on the property of a large major and it would keep mainline jobs from being shifted to contract lift providers or Eagle.

Too bad Arpey doesn't have the stones to play hard ball with Boeing the way Crandall did with Airbus and the A300...

Although according to Walter Aue "They are aware of the 100 seat problem and there is no elegant solution" and "They are comfortable with the gap in seats between Eagle Emb's and mainline Super 80's"

Keep talking about the 170, have you seen how low UAIR ALPA has set the bar in terms of pay rates at that MDA sham? $60 or so dollars an hour? Union Plumbers make more...

717 pay rates already exist, why go to a type that has no history with the company and the only operator of the type has set the bar so low there is no point in even having discussions with the company when the number they will throw up in the name of being "Competitive" is the other operators sell out rates?

The 717 was/is the perfect replacement for the F100, just too damn bad management here cant get off that regional jet heroin and think a little out of the box for a millisecond.

We had all the infrastructure for the 717 in place and threw it away.

Meanwhile, we shoehorn people onto RJ's for that STL-BOS and any other number of routes that are simply too long for a lawn dart.That is giving people what they want isnt it? An RJ for a 3 1/2 hour flight? Yah, I'll be right there....