APA negotiating update

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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Yeah. Heard all that a half dozen times or so.

First it was the guys at CO in 1983. No way that anyone was going to work at Lorenzo's wages....

And then in 1989, nobody was going to work for Eastern; in 1991, nobody was going to stick around with TWA...

After 2001, it was Mesa, US Airways, Comair, UA....

Arguably, there was never a shortage of people willing to go to work for EA, TW, BN2, even up to their bitter ends. And their failures had little to do with labor, but just more to do with the fact that they'd withered so greatly on the vine that they'd been made insignificant.

Even today, US Airways, Mesa, Eagle, etc. don't seem to have staffing problems.

So, no, sorry, I don't buy it that liquidation is the next step. They'll find people to replace you. This country is sitting with >8% unemployment, and there are a lot of military folks rotating home and retiring as Obama shrinks the Armed Forces. Skilled workers from the regionals would kill for a chance to move up to a major, and the regionals will manage to find someone else to backfill those who moved up.
 

Buck

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Aug 20, 2002
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Even the unskilled could fill the ranks. Does anyone at TUL believe that the TWU is going to allow a dues reduction, if it can be helped?
 

787nightmare

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Aug 28, 2010
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Eric, I just don't the trend/that trajectory continuing.
I was right out of a/p sch when I hired on at CO in 6/88. (no picket lines crossed here-all over with). CO had to recruit out of Spartan, because nobody in ind would come to wk for Lorenzo. 6 mos into it, I was trying leave. And that was when schools were still graduating plenty of students. That's not happening now-not nearly like it was. And yeah, you'd get some people from the regionals(I wk with a few from Eagle, they ain't too impressed). And had I not been so desperate to get back home, I sure as hell would've never left Boeing for less than $20/hr to start at AA. In fact, I beat myself up daily for leaving. The hostile environment was evident right when I came out the hgr floor. I've never felt the "welcome aboard" exp that one gets at a well run/respectful company. Instead it's more "another one of them" attitude/tone.

I think most people with a good head on there shoulders have seen the light, and want no part of this God forsaken industry anymore(outside of a relatively small percentage). The allure & glamour of it all has taken on one of Hollywood monster. Aside from all this, most younger guys aren't interested at all in what we airline mechs are doing with airplanes. Hell, they don't even change the oil in there cars.

The pool or percentage of people that ARE QUALIFIED to work on commercial aircraft is shrinking every year. This industry is a victim of itself. And sadly, they've brought a large portion of it on themselves.

Now the other airline occupations....outside of maint & the flight deck, I'd say you're probably more accurate there.
 
OP
Super FLUF

Super FLUF

Senior
Jun 10, 2011
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Even today, US Airways, Mesa, Eagle, etc. don't seem to have staffing problems.

Agree to some extent. Can't speak for the other work groups, but....

I believe that USAirways recently had their pilot app window open and received quite a few apps.

The regionals, however, seem to be increasingly desperate getting qualified applicants. I have checked into the rumors of new pilot candidates dropping to a trickle at flight schools and it is true. The numbers I got were actually shocking - it is down to next to NOTHING.

I see the mechanics posting on here similar stories. I don't doubt that one bit. Why spend all sorts of time and money to get into an incredibly volatile and insecure industry coupled with incredible responsibility if it is only going to pay Starbucks wages?

The airlines will be able to scrape by for the next few years on the gray hairs they have working for them now, but there is definitely storm clouds on the horizon.

Anyways, back on thread topic....

posted on March 02, 2012 14:53
What's NOT Going On At The Table

AMR presented its 1113(c) “term sheet” to APA on Feb. 1 and their expanded work rule proposal on Feb. 7. As we communicated last Friday, APA has presented our counterproposals, which we've posted on APANegotiations.com. Since that point, discussions at the negotiating table have been focused on contractual modeling changes and valuations tied to both parties' proposals, including the underlying methodologies and assumptions. What is clearly NOT going on at the table is negotiating, as management has yet to respond to any of APA’s counterproposals.

Management continues to cling to their premise that the “target” number of $370 million in concessions (based on a six-year average) must be obtained. They insist that the A Plan pension plan needs to be terminated, despite its more than 90 percent funding level. They insist on being allowed to outsource flying on jets with up to 88 seats, which would include the Embraer E-170/175/190 aircraft.

Management has shown zero flexibility in negotiations. For example, APA presented a scheduling/work rules package allowing for significant increases in pilot block hour productivity. However, management only values the APA scheduling/work rules package as an $11 million savings (six-year average). In fact, they are claiming that the APA proposals will increase their scheduling costs the first two years, because they allege that pilot sick calls will increase dramatically upon contract implementation. Management wants to quickly dismiss the gap in productivity valuations while pushing for further concessions to reach the “target.”

The process has become disingenuous ― management has what amounts to little more than a "take it or leave it" attitude. As communicated in separate updates, APA filed a lawsuit earlier this week that seeks to protect our rights under the Railway Labor Act. While a consensual agreement is in the best interests of both parties, management’s behavior at the negotiating table forces APA to explore all possible options to protect our collective interests.

APA has presented counterproposals that are industry competitive and allow for a successful restructuring of American Airlines. Management’s 1113(c) term sheet is clearly over-reaching in areas too numerous to list. The Negotiating Committee remains ready and available to keep meeting with management in hopes of reaching a consensual agreement.

Your APA Negotiating Committee