APFA Negotiates MORE FLYING

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Special APFA Update...This is APFA President Laura Glading with a Special Negotiations update for Monday, December 15.



Your Negotiating Team is facing a monumental task of restoring and improving all aspects of our contract. To achieve this goal, we take our direction from you –what you say is vital to this process. Reserve and Scheduling issues continue to rank as an area of extremely high importance to all Flight Attendants. Through negotiations surveys, your e-mails and your phone calls, you repeatedly tell us:



-- that you want fewer Flight Attendants on Reserve; and



-- that all Flight Attendants want an opportunity to earn extra money during both Reserve and Regular Line months.



As just one part of a comprehensive plan to overhaul the current Reserve and Scheduling system, your Team has crafted a proposal which would address both of these concerns. The Team recently briefed the APFA Board of Directors on this one piece, which we presented to the Company.



Called “Volunteer to Flyâ€￾ -- or “VTFâ€￾– this program will allow you, whether a Line Holder or Reserve, to volunteer to fly open time as it becomes available during a block of days off -- a minimum two-day block for Domestic, three-day block for International. In exchange, you will be paid a guaranteed four-hour minimum, or the hours of the sequence flown, whichever is greater.



VTF assignments will be given, for same day coverage, after Make Up and before Reserve – in seniority order and without regard to maximums. Though there are many details to the VTF proposal, its key features are:



-- First, if no assignment is given for the first day of the block of VTF days, you will receive four hours pay and have no further obligation to fly on the remaining days.



-- Second, for Reserve Flight Attendants, you will be paid above the guarantee for any assignment on VTF days, or the four-hour minimum if not used.



-- Third, if qualified, you will have the ability to pick up VTF flying in the opposite division, International or Domestic, to increase your flying opportunities.



We firmly believe that consistent and regular awarding of VTF flying will eventually reduce the reserve lists.



Additionally, by voluntarily accepting to be available on short notice, you will earn extra pay, whether you receive an assignment or not.



Persuading the Company that there is an interest among off-duty Flight Attendants to be available for a two or three day period of their own choosing, in return for guaranteed pay was not easy.



Your Team needs to gather real data to back up our claims that the Flight Attendants are interested. We have convinced the Company to run a sixty-day trial of this program at four bases: DFW / IDF and DCA / DCA-I, commencing on January 15th.



Briefings will be sent to Flight Attendants at these bases. More details on this proposed program will be available on the Negotiations page of the APFA website soon. Members of the Negotiating Team are also available to answer your questions emailed to: [email protected].



Your Negotiating Team has worked hard on this proposal which aims to address some of the most pressing issues surrounding Reserve and the limited availability of additional flying for all Flight Attendants. Rest assured we continue to address all areas where improvement is needed. We remain committed to presenting you with a contract we will all be proud of.



Thank you for your continued support and for your Unity in our fight to achieve an improved working agreement.

 

[AAStew]

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Let's just give the company a few more of our days off...
When did the masses ever say we wanted anything like this? What a bunch of crap!

 

[IORFA]

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Let's just give the company a few more of our days off...
When did the masses ever say we wanted anything like this? What a bunch of crap!

Then don't volunteer to fly. Problem solved.

 

[Maark767]

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Let's just give the company a few more of our days off...
When did the masses ever say we wanted anything like this? What a bunch of crap!

Did you even understand what this all means???? For starters, LESS RSV NUMBERS..... Thats good for everyone... everywhere !!!!
And for those F/A's who are on rsv, they will get a chance to fly and not have to worry about getting a 50hr paycheck every 4 th month. It's a know fact that you cant make cash on rsv.... now maybe you can...

 

[jersey777]

I am a high time flyer..about 110 hrs a month...and I am on reserve. I applaud any action that would reduce reserve and allow me to fly high time. However, I am not so sure that this idea helps me so much. The only time I might use it is on reserve months to get guaranteed hours over 75. On a line month I would much rather pick up a trip from another flight attendant so I know ahead of time what trip I am on.


I like the fact that the union is thinking outside the box but until I see this idea work, I don't think this will change things much.

 

[boston]

My question is , where does this leave opt II .

 

[boston]

My question is , where does this leave opt II .

About that opt II I questioned. I know that IOR/IDF have opt II open at all times and that keeps the RSV list down. IMA tried to convince the company to keep Opt II open at all times as well, but from what I heard they didn't want to pay optII, but IMA APFA went back and said what difference does it make they all 2 for 1 anyway and thats legal and an accepted practice.

I'd question the VTF.

 

[Maark767]

I am a high time flyer..about 110 hrs a month...and I am on reserve. I applaud any action that would reduce reserve and allow me to fly high time. However, I am not so sure that this idea helps me so much. The only time I might use it is on reserve months to get guaranteed hours over 75. On a line month I would much rather pick up a trip from another flight attendant so I know ahead of time what trip I am on.


I like the fact that the union is thinking outside the box but until I see this idea work, I don't think this will change things much.

Would you VTF on RSV so that your paycheck will be somewhat equal to your line months??? I think alot of F/A's would do so ..... I'm sure the union thought this out very carefully before presenting it to the company. This proposal addresses two issues... #1, Lower RSV numbers and # 2, Allowing F/As to make money on RSV.
I think the union is listening to the membership and trying to make things change.

 

[s80dude]

About that opt II I questioned. I know that IOR/IDF have opt II open at all times and that keeps the RSV list down. IMA tried to convince the company to keep Opt II open at all times as well, but from what I heard they didn't want to pay optII, but IMA APFA went back and said what difference does it make they all 2 for 1 anyway and thats legal and an accepted practice.

I'd question the VTF.

Your option II info isn't correct. You can pull up the option II openings with RF 8803 CCS in DECS. At IDF, I don't think option II has been open once this month yet. We cover most of our flying with Make Up, even at the last minute. Lots of senior folks park a trip off their schedules so they are low on time, then get a make up trip, then trade the original trip back and they have 100 hours, all from the company. That means reserves fly very little. I flew one trip on reserve in November and finished the month with 15 hours.

There was a test a few years ago where option II was open the entire month to keep reserves down, but it was not continued.

In my opinion, this will still screw those of us on reserve because now they have yet another list of people to take trips before a reserve gets one. It might be a smaller reserve list, but if you are still stuck with being on reserve, you still won't fly.

 

[jersey777]

Your option II info isn't correct. You can pull up the option II openings with RF 8803 CCS in DECS. At IDF, I don't think option II has been open once this month yet. We cover most of our flying with Make Up, even at the last minute. Lots of senior folks park a trip off their schedules so they are low on time, then get a make up trip, then trade the original trip back and they have 100 hours, all from the company. That means reserves fly very little. I flew one trip on reserve in November and finished the month with 15 hours.

There was a test a few years ago where option II was open the entire month to keep reserves down, but it was not continued.

In my opinion, this will still screw those of us on reserve because now they have yet another list of people to take trips before a reserve gets one. It might be a smaller reserve list, but if you are still stuck with being on reserve, you still won't fly.

If I am reading this proposal right, then the VTR would go above and beyond your guarantee. So you would be able to make more money on your reserve month...right? How would you be screwed this way?

 

[Flyboy4u]

My Questions is how is VTF flying going to work when there is little to no flying as it is? In STL those on AVBL and MU rarely get a trip...I know many line holders this month on AVBL with NO hours as of the 17th of Dec. Yet, they still get their Guarntee...The only way I see this VTF flying actually working is when there are actually trips in open time to fly. In order for that to happen, the company must institute new flying from the bases, or furlough...My guess is the latter is going to happen come the first of the year.

 

[s80dude]

If I am reading this proposal right, then the VTR would go above and beyond your guarantee. So you would be able to make more money on your reserve month...right? How would you be screwed this way?

Because there will be limits to the # of people who can be on the VTF list for any given day and that will be given in seniority order. We will simply see the very senior people who are already parking trips for make up hog all the VTF positions on the list while more junior people will not even be senior enough to make the VTF list at all. Couple that with the fact that many are only qualified on two planes, and it will simply be another way to line their pockets with 4 more hours.

AA is going to limit the # of people that can be on the VTF list because otherwise they will have 100 people on for any given day and they are certainly not going to pay a 4 hours at incentive rate to each one....

 

[jersey777]

Because there will be limits to the # of people who can be on the VTF list for any given day and that will be given in seniority order. We will simply see the very senior people who are already parking trips for make up hog all the VTF positions on the list while more junior people will not even be senior enough to make the VTF list at all. Couple that with the fact that many are only qualified on two planes, and it will simply be another way to line their pockets with 4 more hours.

AA is going to limit the # of people that can be on the VTF list because otherwise they will have 100 people on for any given day and they are certainly not going to pay a 4 hours at incentive rate to each one....

See, the devil is in the details! I didn't realize that there would be a cap. Sounds like this idea wouldn't make much difference. In my humble opinion, the entire reserve system has to be scrapped and a new complete system has to be put in place. What that system should be I don't know. What I do know is that year after year you have the same people serving reserve with no hope of getting off. The pain has to be spread. A friend of mine has NEVER sat reserve. NEVER. I like to call it Super Seniority. There are the Haves and Have Nots. In the past there was growth and this was not the case. The airline industry has changed and we have to change as well. It is simply not acceptable to me that the current system remain in place.

 

[jimntx]

I agree that the VTF will benefit junior f/as and RSV little to none at all. As far as reducing RSV numbers...possibly in the best of all possible worlds. However, here's why it won't work as they think in THIS world.

1. There is little to no Open Time flying as it is. In SLT where we have 379 active f/as and only 242 bid positions this month, AVBL people are almost coming to blows in trying to get something from OT. I am on reserve this month. I have among the highest hours of any reserve in SLT--25.27!!! That includes 5 hours airport standby. I've had one 3-day trip which due to delays ended up being worth 20.27.
2. Day before yesterday in DFW, I was talking with a DFW-D reserve. As of the 15th, she had 8 hours. There was a BOS-D reserve in Ops at SLT today (she commutes from STL to BOS). She is on reserve this month in BOS. She has ZERO hours as of the 17th of December. She hasn't even been assigned airport standby so far.
3. The senior people--up to the allowed number--will park on VTF knowing that there will be little chance that they will have to do anything other than collect 4 hours for not flying.
4. If flying should become available, it will not go to the people who need to fly high time.
5. Junior f/as who must fly high time in order to afford this job will start quitting. If the bottom of the list goes away. Guess what happens to the RSV list overall? That's right children...it will go more senior. How does this "solve" the reserve problem?

If the APFA wanted to do something for those of us who are doomed to be on availability for the rest of our careers, they would see to it that the company put structured availability lines back on the bidsheet. (And, let's be honest. AVBL is nothing more than glorified RSV.) This baloney of "we will make up a line for you if you can't hold anything" has got to stop. Particularly when it comes to vacation month. The company plots as many days off as it possibly can on your vacation days. I know one SLT f/a who got paid for 5 of her 14 vacation days this year because she was "awarded" an avbl line that had 9 days off during her 14 vacation day span. Another SLT f/a had only 5 vacation days in October because she had been ill a good bit during the year and had to use vacation days for sick days. The company just happened to plot her 4 days off during that 5 day span.

I am fortunate that I can afford a paycheck that represents just being paid my guarantee. A lot of f/as can not. HIBOARD in SLT is practically useless to these people anymore. 90% of the HIBOARD listings are for trades only--no drops. The other 10% have just lost contact with reality. There are no trips that meet their requirements--"higher time than the 7.30 turn they have, but must not sign-in before 1000 and must return by 1800. No #1. "

 

[jimntx]

In the past there was growth and this was not the case. The airline industry has changed and we have to change as well. It is simply not acceptable to me that the current system remain in place.

If you think our reserve system is bad, go over and read some of the posts on the US Airways forum. They have a straight reserve system. Next month in PHL, there will be f/as with 18 years back on straight reserve.

By the way, at US Airways the lineholders are already allowed to pick up trips from OT on their days off. In fact, if I am reading the posts on their forum correctly, the lineholders get to pick and choose from OT before anyone else including RSVs. The RSVs are screaming for a change to the system because they are not even able to cover their guarantees most months.

I agree that it is ridiculous for people with 20+ years to be on reserve at all--even 2 or 3 times/year--but the problem is not with the number of people on reserve. The problem is that those people are among the most junior in those bases; therefore, they are the ones on reserve.
I don't know of any system that could correct this problem and still use seniority as the sole basis for all assignments to reserve.