APFA News

[kirkpatrick]

Wrong again. I just gave a call to my vice chairperson who was not in attendance, but who received a complete report on the BOD meeting last night from the chairperson.

I apologize for misinterpreting a quote on another site as meaning the main focus of the meeting was court cases.

"So as to further quell any misunderstanding, this BOD meeting was NOT called for the express purpose of updating the BOD on legal issues, rather a legal update is regularly included in the various meetings of the APFA leadership."

"The meeting was called to address a variety of issues ranging from internal union issues to joint union/company work.

I am very happy to report that a strongly worded, unanimously supported resolution, ironically numbered 8 as was the recall/recall extension resolution, was passed at this BOD meeting."

So there was certainly more involved than the cellphone issue.

MK

 

[eolesen]

Either way, we shouldn't be paying for sonny to call/text his friends. For that matter, we shouldn't be paying for our Base/Vice Chairs to call their significant others. That is why they should have their own cell pnones and different work phones.

Nice in theory, but it rarely works... A few of my folks carry two phones. The one least used (work?) usually winds up never being recharged (because they forget about it), so it's useless when you need it most.

The other thing to remember is that if you're buying a package with minutes that don't roll over, does it really matter what happens to unused minutes? When I go thru the cell phone invoices here at the end of the month, all I pay attention to are overages. If there's an overage, and it's due to personal calls, we have a closed door chat.

Otherwise, it's like having empty seats at departure time... you either fill them up with nonrevs or you let them go out empty and piss off the employees.

 

[IORFA]

Eric,

That is great if that were the case. We/APFA were paying way too much for these peoples cell phones. If APFA can get a cheaper plan that allows the reps to do what they need to do for APFA work, then do it. Let these blood sucking APFA reps pay for their own families cell phone plans. I don't want to pay for them anymore. Paying for them was never part of the job description when they were elected.

 

[Skymess]

Any news about what transpired during this meeting?

News from the meeting, More news coming later.
A few of the resolutions passed/failed.

21 action items were on the table.

a. THREE RESOLUTIONS PASSED (one failed) regarding our APFA
Treasurer and the need to basically censor anything and everything
that comes from that office for the remainder of her term, whether
via email, voice mail, written articles, etc.

b. RESOLUTION PASSED removing APFA from joint work with AMR,
removing elected APFA representatives from ALL UJ <Union Joint> coded
work and pay, citing AMR's executive bonuses, etc, and clarifying
that appearance of APFA and AMR <UJ> would/might indicate conflict of
interest. This was ultimately one of the STRONGEST resolutions
passed. (I would ask that APFA members read the APFA Policy manual
regarding SA work/pay and look for further action/clarification
regarding this issue!)

c. RESOLUTION PASSED overturning decision to close the ability of
APFA members to review financials inclusive of APFA dues arrears, etc.

d. RESOLUTION PASSED creating a new position at APFA as EAP
Specialist



Apparently the censor had to do with the treasurer doing her own thing (like ordering cell phones) without any oversight.

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

An e-mail from APFA:

"The Board meeting was announced on last Friday's hotline. It's not an
Emergency Board Meeting, it is a Special Board Meeting. The minutes will be
published online according to required time limits in the Policy Manual."


Thanks,
Leslie Mayo

From APFA Website:

"Next Tuesday, June 19th, the APFA Board of Directors will meet at the DFW Airport Hilton Garden Inn. All members in good standing are welcome to attend. The meeting begins at 9:00 a.m. Minutes from last week’s Executive Committee Meeting will be published on APFA’s Web site shortly and in accordance with the APFA Policy Manual."

 

[nbmcg01]

Eric,

That is great if that were the case. We/APFA were paying way too much for these peoples cell phones. If APFA can get a cheaper plan that allows the reps to do what they need to do for APFA work, then do it. Let these blood sucking APFA reps pay for their own families cell phone plans. I don't want to pay for them anymore. Paying for them was never part of the job description when they were elected.

A simple answer is to reimburse for a set amt. or have the reps pay for any overages that aren't "business" related. On the other hand "new blood" is always a good thing. Run for office. Minor "perks" usually do not offset the "stuff" union reps have to deal with from with mangt and the membership. I'll be you could count on 2 hands how many f/as really know their contract. It is called the "do it for me syndrome".

 

[AC AA LA FA]

A simple answer is to reimburse for a set amt. or have the reps pay for any overages that aren't "business" related. On the other hand "new blood" is always a good thing. Run for office. Minor "perks" usually do not offset the "stuff" union reps have to deal with from with mangt and the membership.

I'll be you could count on 2 hands how many f/as really know their contract. It is called the "do it for me syndrome".

APFA has "spoon fed" their membership and hence we have a workforce who knows ZERO about their contract. In my experience with TWA folks at AA, every last one of them had a working knowledge of the book or made an effort to learn. Im assuming thats what IFFA/IAM expected.

 

[nbmcg01]

I'll be you could count on 2 hands how many f/as really know their contract. It is called the "do it for me syndrome".

APFA has "spoon fed" their membership and hence we have a workforce who knows ZERO about their contract. In my experience with TWA folks at AA, every last one of them had a working knowledge of the book or made an effort to learn. Im assuming thats what IFFA/IAM expected.

I wish that were so. We had our share of the "do me's" too. We have become much more union savvy since the ethnic cleansing. I would imagine IF there are more recalls, you will see the recalled becoming active in base activities because informed is key to dispelling rumors and addressing fears and misperceptions. If proper union "training" had been conducted after the acquisition (assets are acquired, personnel are merged) there would have been a better understanding of the value of an experienced work force joining WITH you, (especially in times of concessions). There would have been clear understanding that "we" were not coming in and "getting" YOUR retirement. I also think there would have been more pressure to fight during the illegal RPA discussions to protect jobs and get real value for the final concessions. There just would have been better understanding. I also think there would have been more open dialogue on how merging 4000 into 20000 (with 1500 to 2000 of those VERY junior to fairly junior) was not the huge impact that many feared. In this day and age there will have to be some major changes by your work group IF you hope to see any improvements for the better. The "we've always done it this way" mentality is a recipe for failure.

 

[jimntx]

Now Nancy, you know that being informed takes all the fun out of galley gossip. It's much more emotionally satisfying to rant in the galley about the injustices committed by crew scheduling/FSMs/"whoever has last told you no" than to be accurate.

BTW, elimination of the "we've always done it this way" approach would have to start with the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed on Useless Blvd. It's one of the reasons we don't have a real union. A real union would make every effort to improve the working life of ALL flight attendants, not just the senior ones.

This attitude of "I was treated like cr*p when I was junior; so, you have to go through it too. You'll understand when you get senior" is one of the reasons that so many of the junior f/as are quitting and more senior people are going back on reserve--of the 495 that came back with me in Nov. 2004, approx. 175 of them have since quit. A real union would fight to change the past bad practices re: junior f/as, and make it better today. But, the attitude stated above prevails. Until you have at least 25 years, you don't exist to those people. 🙁

I'm just glad I do it for the glamourous lifestyle.

 

[Skymess]

I'll be you could count on 2 hands how many f/as really know their contract. It is called the "do it for me syndrome".

APFA has "spoon fed" their membership and hence we have a workforce who knows ZERO about their contract. In my experience with TWA folks at AA, every last one of them had a working knowledge of the book or made an effort to learn. Im assuming thats what IFFA/IAM expected.

In defense of AA flight attendants I don't think the problem is APFA spoon fed them. At Tower and NWA we knew the contract because they were always trying to mess with us.

When I first came to AA I made a point of knowing the contract so they couldn't do that to me here. I was surprised to see that the schedulers and trackers actually followed the contract and automatically warned you when you would be illegal and were courteous about it. There were some occastions where they tried things, but not to the degree it has become. And not to the degree that NWA and Tower did it. Not that it was true 100% of the time but there was a lot of money to waste here at one time and it was spread heavily around the company. Nobody had any hardships scrabbling for anything, even a replacement crew or airplane, when I first came.

After the RPA happened that courtesy, along with our money, went out the window so many flight attendants here were in for the shock of their lives when they found themselves getting hosed left and right. Now it is like a welfare state and you have to fill out chits to get anything extra on the plane so your department can shoulder the blame and you have to fight to prove you are illegal or they secretly try to get you off the gate before you go illegal. Stupid people keep working past their duty days deliberately too, which makes it worse, because they desperately need the money and they can't afford to lose a trip.I guess when the duty days are built so tight it would not be cost effective for scheduling to warn someone they are about to go illegal because most crews are in the same boat and they don't have THAT many reserves and no extra airplanes anymore. Things changed in the last few years. When I first came I was amazed, and happy, that it was such a white glove operation and we were treated so well. People that didn't come from other airlines didn't know how well until it was gone.

Now Nancy, you know that being informed takes all the fun out of galley gossip. It's much more emotionally satisfying to rant in the galley about the injustices committed by crew scheduling/FSMs/"whoever has last told you no" than to be accurate.

BTW, elimination of the "we've always done it this way" approach would have to start with the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed on Useless Blvd. It's one of the reasons we don't have a real union. A real union would make every effort to improve the working life of ALL flight attendants, not just the senior ones.


I'm just glad I do it for the glamourous lifestyle.

I agree with you that the galley gossipers enjoy their work. They have always existed and they will remain in existence. The problem in the last few years has been they just gossiped about nonsense and now they "really" have something to bit*h about so it is quite depressing and no longer amusing.

Yes, the new resolutions to not have any more tea parties with AA has finally happened. (as per the apfa hotline) What woke them up is anyone's guess. Let's hope it isn't just more talk.

Yes, if I didn't have the glamor I don't know what I would do with myself.

 

[nbmcg01]

In defense of AA flight attendants I don't think the problem is APFA spoon fed them. At Tower and NWA we knew the contract because they were always trying to mess with us.

When I first came to AA I made a point of knowing the contract so they couldn't do that to me here. I was surprised to see that the schedulers and trackers actually followed the contract and automatically warned you when you would be illegal and were courteous about it. There were some occastions where they tried things, but not to the degree it has become. And not to the degree that NWA and Tower did it. Not that it was true 100% of the time but there was a lot of money to waste here at one time and it was spread heavily around the company. Nobody had any hardships scrabbling for anything, even a replacement crew or airplane, when I first came.

After the RPA happened that courtesy, along with our money, went out the window so many flight attendants here were in for the shock of their lives when they found themselves getting hosed left and right. Now it is like a welfare state and you have to fill out chits to get anything extra on the plane so your department can shoulder the blame and you have to fight to prove you are illegal or they secretly try to get you off the gate before you go illegal. Stupid people keep working past their duty days deliberately too, which makes it worse, because they desperately need the money and they can't afford to lose a trip.I guess when the duty days are built so tight it would not be cost effective for scheduling to warn someone they are about to go illegal because most crews are in the same boat and they don't have THAT many reserves and no extra airplanes anymore. Things changed in the last few years. When I first came I was amazed, and happy, that it was such a white glove operation and we were treated so well. People that didn't come from other airlines didn't know how well until it was gone.
I agree with you that the galley gossipers enjoy their work. They have always existed and they will remain in existence. The problem in the last few years has been they just gossiped about nonsense and now they "really" have something to bit*h about so it is quite depressing and no longer amusing.

Yes, the new resolutions to not have any more tea parties with AA has finally happened. (as per the apfa hotline) What woke them up is anyone's guess. Let's hope it isn't just more talk.

Yes, if I didn't have the glamor I don't know what I would do with myself.

My guess is Dixie and Tim have been working overtime. The new STL reps (along with the OCRs) are working to change perceptions and with their experience, I am hopeful that some will actually listen to their wisdom. I would love to see Dixie become one of the elected negotiators. She is great at innovative work rules (that are cost effective AND flight attendant friendly) and might help to keep things "honest". Jim, as long as you have a seniority system, you'll have contractual inequities. I would hate to see the day when the "junior" pit retirement against money and work rules. At AA I could see this happening. I think this current resolution follows in the wake of the outrage of the furloughed as LOAs that have greatly benefited the Co have been "given" with no sign of movement on such items as extended recall. Pressure is pressure is pressure. Especially when you can back it up with a shared sacrifice of over $600,000,000.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, as long as you have a seniority system, you'll have contractual inequities. I would hate to see the day when the "junior" pit retirement against money and work rules. At AA I could see this happening. I think this current resolution follows in the wake of the outrage of the furloughed as LOAs that have greatly benefited the Co have been "given" with no sign of movement on such items as extended recall.

Nor would I ever expect a senior f/a to give up retirement benefits in exchange for better work rules that would benefit me. What I am talking about is the fact that APFA's headquarters attitude is that I should pay my dues and keep my mouth shut until I "have more time and will understand."

And, it's not just retirement benefits that they are protecting. They also want to maintain the "perk" of being a flight attendant who neither flies nor retires. What the hell's the point? And, the perk of the flight attendants who bid all the best lines each month, but then sell the trips to their friend who has a trip trade service. (Oh! Did I say that in my outside voice?)

And, they want to spend major funds on legal help (aka Pat Gibbs) getting the job back for a f/a who has TWICE been fired for telling F/C passengers to go f*ck themselves. (BTW, the arbitrator did give her job back again, but at least this time, it's on career decision.)

But, they do NOT want to be bothered by junior f/as expecting the union to come to their defense when the company forces them to go out on trips for which they are illegal, etc. And, such jokes as that line 2000 Availability business. Which was nothing more than agreement between the company and the union to force the most junior f/as in each base to serve reserve year round, but just not call it reserve. Too bad it backfired on them.

 

[nbmcg01]

Nor would I ever expect a senior f/a to give up retirement benefits in exchange for better work rules that would benefit me. What I am talking about is the fact that APFA's headquarters attitude is that I should pay my dues and keep my mouth shut until I "have more time and will understand."

And, it's not just retirement benefits that they are protecting. They also want to maintain the "perk" of being a flight attendant who neither flies nor retires. What the hell's the point? And, the perk of the flight attendants who bid all the best lines each month, but then sell the trips to their friend who has a trip trade service. (Oh! Did I say that in my outside voice?)

And, they want to spend major funds on legal help (aka Pat Gibbs) getting the job back for a f/a who has TWICE been fired for telling F/C passengers to go f*ck themselves. (BTW, the arbitrator did give her job back again, but at least this time, it's on career decision.)

But, they do NOT want to be bothered by junior f/as expecting the union to come to their defense when the company forces them to go out on trips for which they are illegal, etc. And, such jokes as that line 2000 Availability business. Which was nothing more than agreement between the company and the union to force the most junior f/as in each base to serve reserve year round, but just not call it reserve. Too bad it backfired on them.

Union representation is an interesting entity, not unlike being a public defender. Everyone has the right to be represented, no matter the issue. I happened to be very good at my job and never lost a termination grievance. And yes, that was my job. The way to change is to insure junior f/as are represented on the negotiating team and that good solid work rules are negotiated which benefit the junior without harm to the senior. I am in favor of leaves (without seniority consequence) being offered to offset any and all furloughs. We all go through passages in our lives and the fact that this is an unforgiving industry when it comes to seniority makes it even more important to insure all options are available before one has to leave for good.

One reserve item we had was 12 day spreads. One block in the beginning of the month, one in the middle, and one at the end. It changed the dynamics of our reserve and in many months, reserve was very senior. Also, if extended time off was needed, bidding the last of one month and the beginning of the next produced the needed time off, (which had the potential to reduce sick leave). Of course we didn't have rotating reserve and many helping to train us on bidding were shocked when we actually bid reserve. With some of the bid sequences offered, reserve looked good. We also very rarely used airport stand by. I can't think of more than a handful of times I saw it used in 35 years. We had call in times and stand by. Stand by meant bag packed, uniform ready and be at the airport in 2 hours. It was simple and it worked.

Trading was much more simple, no equal hours, you just had to stay above guarantee. We did have some restrictions on holidays, leaving too many openings but that could be handled by 2 for 1 covering the at risk days. The APFA CBA could be tightened up to the benefit of all.

 

[jimntx]

All that makes way too much sense; so, it must be some kind of set up. Neither the company nor the union would go for it. Trust me.

 

[Skymess]

Nor would I ever expect a senior f/a to give up retirement benefits in exchange for better work rules that would benefit me. What I am talking about is the fact that APFA's headquarters attitude is that I should pay my dues and keep my mouth shut until I "have more time and will understand."

And, it's not just retirement benefits that they are protecting. They also want to maintain the "perk" of being a flight attendant who neither flies nor retires. What the hell's the point? And, the perk of the flight attendants who bid all the best lines each month, but then sell the trips to their friend who has a trip trade service. (Oh! Did I say that in my outside voice?)

And, they want to spend major funds on legal help (aka Pat Gibbs) getting the job back for a f/a who has TWICE been fired for telling F/C passengers to go f*ck themselves. (BTW, the arbitrator did give her job back again, but at least this time, it's on career decision.)

But, they do NOT want to be bothered by junior f/as expecting the union to come to their defense when the company forces them to go out on trips for which they are illegal, etc. And, such jokes as that line 2000 Availability business. Which was nothing more than agreement between the company and the union to force the most junior f/as in each base to serve reserve year round, but just not call it reserve. Too bad it backfired on them.

Completely agree. Big disparity between what's good for the senior FA's and what is good for everyone. Problem is that most of our union people are senior and most are lifers who like union work and not being flight attendants.

It's hard to see the good in a union when they give all of our stuff away and squander our money saving the jobs of the most difficult people to work with.

It is easy to see why they decided to foist the RPA on us. They deal with all the bad, stupid, apples and probably just figure all of us are like that. How many people with no problems call their base chair or union reps? Not many. I can see how you might think you were smarter than the average bear if your daily experiences deal with martha who can't stop drinking minis and falling asleep on her jumpseat, becky who likes crack a little too much and can never make a pick up on her layover, and joann who tells all the passengers to stick it in their a** if they don't tell her quickly enough how they take their coffee.