April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

You clowns voted in Addington II, the company has sided with the west on all accounts of adjudicating our claim, AMR and the UCC want a shot in Silver's court to affirm their ripeness arguments... the whole world is ganging up on USAPA.

Scott Theuer, how do you feel about the 98% now??? LOL. You voted Addington ripe with the MOU. And I bet this isn't a surprise to Gary Hummel or many in the USAPA leadership. The only surprised people are the east animals frequenting this board.
The ripeness issue is settled, just like Marty said it would be.
The only question at this point is damages... how much and when do they start to accrue. God, what a great way to start off the weekend!!!!

The west got a huge affirmation of our legal standing with the company's filing in Doc 49. USAPA is now left twisting in the wind all by themselves! LOL

Reading document 49 puts another big nail in usapa's coffin, you clowns are done.

Read Document 194, JUDGMENT. http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Declatory_Relief/Doc194_Order.pdf

Here, let me paste the complete JUDGMENT (again): "IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012. Roslyn O. Silver, CHIEF United States District Judge."

Yeah, USAPA is twisting alright.

 

[Metroyet]

The law is clear on this point. In fact, it's called ""black letter" law. Procedural due process requirements MUST be met before substantive due process requirements. It's in the Constitution. It's NOT RIPE until the "Knife is thrust". It doesn't matter what the Company or the UCC believe. Judge Silvers ruling in the DJ case are clear. No DFR trial until after MB is complete. Keep tilting at windmills and SYIC.

Small problem Mr. Sellack. MB WAS NOT THE LAW in effect during the America West acquisition of US Air. USAPA's foundational argument was that THIS "final and binding" wasn't really either because MB wasn't the Law.

How do you then argue that MB should integrate the East and West when, in fact, MB didn't exist, and has never been applicable to this situation? You can't. Know why? Because we all know THAT list is completed. The Nic. Way to go, You and your bumbling, incompetent "brotherhood of Theives" will forever be in the Same column as Frank Lorenzo as one of the most costly, and career destroying entities to ever befall a Pilot group. Your greed and blind rage consumed your group...at least you are the ones that by far, have paid the most for your abject failures.

BTW, you're full of it once more. The Company just destroyed USAPA...starting to wonder if that MOU was a trap? ROTFLMFAO!

 

[Metroyet]

Read Document 194, JUDGMENT. http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Declatory_Relief/Doc194_Order.pdf

Here, let me paste the complete JUDGMENT (again): "IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012. Roslyn O. Silver, CHIEF United States District Judge."

Yeah, USAPA is twisting alright.

You're trying to compare Apples to doorknobs. You've been able to get away with it for so long because The Ministry of Communication has flat out lied to its membership for years regarding the true nature and FULL VIEW of the legal landscape USAPA had groomed for itself.

This is an entirely new game and "Johnny Come Lately" suddenly isn't as confused as he claims to be at the crew news sessions.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Small problem Mr. Sellack. MB WAS NOT THE LAW in effect during the America West acquisition of US Air. USAPA's foundational argument was that THIS "final and binding" wasn't really either because MB wasn't the Law.

How do you then argue that MB should integrate the East and West when, in fact, MB didn't exist, and has never been applicable to this situation? You can't. Know why? Because we all know THAT list is completed. The Nic. Way to go, You and your bumbling, incompetent "brotherhood of Theives" will forever be in the Same column as Frank Lorenzo as one of the most costly, and career destroying entities to ever befall a Pilot group. Your greed and blind rage consumed your group...at least you are the ones that by far, have paid the most for your abject failures.

BTW, you're full of it once more. The Company just destroyed USAPA...starting to wonder if that MOU was a trap? ROTFLMFAO!

?????????

 

[end_of_alpa]

You're trying to compare Apples to doorknobs. You've been able to get away with it for so long because The Ministry of Communication has flat out lied to its membership for years regarding the true nature and FULL VIEW of the legal landscape USAPA had groomed for itself.

This is an entirely new game and "Johnny Come Lately" suddenly isn't as confused as he claims to be at the crew news sessions.

This is an example of the AwFOL legal pleadings.

 

[Metroyet]

This is an example of the AwFOL legal pleadings.

Uh, no, that's the arguments made byThe Company, the UCC, AMR, and APA. Your characterization of this just being from a small group "of certain West pilots" is an absolute, bald faced lie. Didn't you work tirelessly to give birth to this Stillborn bastard of a "union"?

Right. That explains the pathological liar in you. BTW, did USTUPID ever recover any part of the 2 million dollars $e$ham stole from you?

 

[A320 Driver]

It doesn't matter what the Company or the UCC believe.

The company and the UCC would claim their mothers to be virgins if it meant they could tidy this little matter up in short order. It's all about money. The sooner this merger is consummated, the sooner it begins to flow.

 

[Metroyet]

?????????

Attempting to play stupid now? Even The Company has abandoned that strategy.

 

[Phoenix]

The company and the UCC would claim their mothers to be virgins if it meant they could tidy this little matter up in short order. It's all about money. The sooner this merger is consummated, the sooner it begins to flow.

That is an issue of what they want.

 

[prechilill]

You're trying to compare Apples to doorknobs. You've been able to get away with it for so long because The Ministry of Communication has flat out lied to its membership for years regarding the true nature and FULL VIEW of the legal landscape USAPA had groomed for itself.

This is an entirely new game and "Johnny Come Lately" suddenly isn't as confused as he claims to be at the crew news sessions.

Well said, you are exactly correct. I'm not surprised Janie and crew cannot figure out what's about to hit them, but the company was quite clear that they as well as the UCC, AMR and AOL have identified a new set of circumstances which makes this ripe. In case you haven't heard, Jamie, there is a merger going on and this thing called an MOU which is a contract between all parties. Everyone knows it's ripe, hard for you to accept, I understand. Your ignorance has ensured the Nicolau will be put into effect. Thank you for removing the AWA MEC and then voting in a contract- you made this easier for us in the west.

Truly, the company's filing lays it out beautifully for all of us on here. Upon POR the west has won.

 

[Freighterguynow]

24 hour bender

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well said, you are exactly correct. I'm not surprised Janie and crew cannot figure out what's about to hit them, but the company was quite clear that they as well as the UCC, AMR and AOL have identified a new set of circumstances which makes this ripe. In case you haven't heard, Jamie, there is a merger going on and this thing called an MOU which is a contract between all parties. Everyone knows it's ripe, hard for you to accept, I understand. Your ignorance has ensured the Nicolau will be put into effect. Thank you for removing the AWA MEC and then voting in a contract- you made this easier for us in the west.

Truly, the company's filing lays it out beautifully for all of us on here. Upon POR the west has won.

Well, if what I have read so far from the legal responses from Harper, I guess I am dumb-founded as to what exactly you have identified as a new set of circumstances which make it ripe unless all the West pilots that attend the the hearing in PHX on May 14 threaten to lynch the Judge if they don't get their way. And as far as the Nicolau Award is concerned, if USAPA calls either or both Holmes and Calveri to the stand (both West pilots, Holmes is member of AwFOL) and calls the West BPR reps to the stand, you guys are going to realize that your votes certainly carried the day, just not to your satisfaction.

I'd point to the pleadings and JUDGMENTS but you guys simply want to believe blindly in your legal fictions. Continue tilting at those windmills on your Quixode endeavors. Oh, and SYIC.

 

[prechilill]

Well, if what I have read so far from the legal responses from Harper, I guess I am dumb-founded as to what exactly you have identified as a new set of circumstances which make it ripe unless all the West pilots that attend the the hearing in PHX on May 14 threaten to lynch the Judge if they don't get their way. And as far as the Nicolau Award is concerned, if USAPA calls either or both Holmes and Calveri to the stand (both West pilots, Holmes is member of AwFOL) and calls the West BPR reps to the stand, you guys are going to realize that your votes certainly carried the day, just not to your satisfaction.

I'd point to the pleadings and JUDGMENTS but you guys simply want to believe blindly in your legal fictions. Continue tilting at those windmills on your Quixode endeavors. Oh, and SYIC.

It's not just Harper Jamie. It's Document 49 submitted by the company:

The fact that the MOU does not contain a finalized integrated seniority list also​

. 13 does not raise the same ripeness concerns as in Addington I. The Ninth Circuit’s decision ​

. 14 was premised on the assumptions that the final integrated seniority list would be the ​

. 15 product of back-and-forth negotiations between US Airways and USAPA (and ultimately ​

. 16 subject to ratification by USAPA’s membership), and that a ratified non-Nicolau seniority ​

. 17 list in conjunction with the improved terms and conditions of employment that might be ​

. 18 contained in a single collective bargaining agreement – both of which were contingent ​

. 19 future events at the time of the Addington I litigation – might be satisfactory to the West ​

. 20 Pilots. Addington, 606 F.3d at 1180-1181. However, the factual and legal landscape of ​

. 21 the US Airways/American seniority integration is totally different. ​

. 22 There will not be any negotiations between USAPA and US Airways regarding the ​

. 23 relative placement of East and West pilots on the integrated seniority list. ​

It's over Jamie. You guys screwed yourselves. The only hope you have now is litigation against the company for purporting a false claim about the MOU not really being a contract. Clearly, it is, as the company is now admitting:

23 While USAPA notes that a JCBA must still be negotiated following the merger,​

​

​

. 24 and asserts that the MOU is therefore not a “final product” and “does not affect [the​

​

​

. 1 ripeness] analysis at all” (USAPA’s Motion to Dismiss (Doc. No. 44) at pp. 9-10 (pp. 14-​

​

​

. 2 15 of the ECF filing)), it fails to mention that the MOU itself has already determined and​

​

​

. 3 sharply circumscribed the parameters of the JCBA.​

​

​

******************************************************************************

. Contrary to USAPA’s​

. 11 argument, the material terms and conditions of employment for both the East and West​

. 12 pilots following the merger are now known and fixed by the MOU.​

 

[prechilill]

One more time:

23 While USAPA notes that a JCBA must still be negotiated following the merger,​

. 24 and asserts that the MOU is therefore not a “final product” and “does not affect [the ​

. 1 ripeness] analysis at all” (USAPA’s Motion to Dismiss (Doc. No. 44) at pp. 9-10 (pp. 14- ​

. 2 15 of the ECF filing)), it fails to mention that the MOU itself has already determined and ​

. 3 sharply circumscribed the parameters of the JCBA. ​

You clowns just voted in a contract and didn't even realize it. The company totally baked you east idiots!!! LOL

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Well said, you are exactly correct. I'm not surprised Janie and crew cannot figure out what's about to hit them, but the company was quite clear that they as well as the UCC, AMR and AOL have identified a new set of circumstances which makes this ripe. In case you haven't heard, Jamie, there is a merger going on and this thing called an MOU which is a contract between all parties. Everyone knows it's ripe, hard for you to accept, I understand. Your ignorance has ensured the Nicolau will be put into effect. Thank you for removing the AWA MEC and then voting in a contract- you made this easier for us in the west.

Truly, the company's filing lays it out beautifully for all of us on here. Upon POR the west has won.

Yes they have won the ability to determine your shorts are ripe, real ripe! A memorandum of understanding (MoU) is a document describing a bilateral or multilateral agreement between two or more parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used in cases where parties either do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement