Attention Pilots! Question For You!

[El Gato]

You know it's not your pay that is the problem, ALPA can prove that readily. You know it is not the IAM that is the problem, although for some unknown reason they are still pushing back planes. You know it isn't even the AFA that is the problem, even though flight attendants are refusing to clean aircraft because "it's dirty work"(Tell that to the F/A's at WN and B6). No, ladies and gentlemen, you know perfectly well what the problem is. YOU are not flying enough! The recently tallied average of hours that US pilots are putting in is about 55 hours a month....WN and B6 average 85 hours a month.

So why is this happening?

First, I would like you to offer up how many YOU did last month, then give a theory as to the reason why. I know all about the most senior pilots and their reasons, sometimes being things like "I am a dentist on the side" or "I have a jewelery store I have to run!". But what about the bulk majority of you captains and f/os?

My own theory is that the line bid process is way out of whack, and that the crew scheduling is totally mismanaged. In addition, the flight lines are done all wrong as well....maybe PHL can't turn a plane in 30 minutes, but I think PIT and CLT and the outer stations can. A WN captain bids a line for the year and flies it - no BS. A US captain, well has "options" and when everyone excercises their options it all gets fubar very fast.

So, once again I ask you. How much are you flying? and what do you think is the cause for it? and how can you change it?

I am not trying to be offensive to any of you, but this isn't exactly the time for half baked attitudes towards our jobs. Got to save them now, or else.

 

[Light Years]

even though flight attendants are refusing to clean aircraft because "it's dirty work"(Tell that to the F/A's at WN and B6).

US Airways flight attendants tidy between flights in many stations on certain aircraft. Obviously they are not going to be sweeping through the A330 before they leave Spain but in many stations they indeed clean. Even before 9-11 there were F/A cleaning stations. All MAA and Express flights are also cleaned by cabin crew.

And aren't the WN F/As upset about cleaning the plane for free?

 

[ktflyhome]

El Gato: Where do you get your information that F/A's are refusing to clean airplanes because it is the "dirty work"??? Where do you get these facts??? We have lots of cleaning stations and I know of no-one who has ever refused to clean where we are designated to do so. I even have seen many pilots help us out????

In My Opinion, the company does NOT want us to fly. :down:

 

[El Gato]

US Airways flight attendants tidy between flights in many stations on certain aircraft. Obviously they are not going to be sweeping through the A330 before they leave Spain but in many stations they indeed clean. Even before 9-11 there were F/A cleaning stations. All MAA and Express flights are also cleaned by cabin crew.

And aren't the WN F/As upset about cleaning the plane for free?

The WN f/a's are not upset about cleaning the planes, because they get paid for it. Nobody "cleans for free" out there, unless you are a money hog and want to scream for "cleaning pay". Is that what you want? You want extra pay for rearranging seat belts and emptying seat back pouches?? If that is the case, maybe you do derserve to lose the job after all.

 

[Light Years]

The WN f/a's are not upset about cleaning the planes, because they get paid for it. Nobody "cleans for free" out there, unless you are a money hog and want to scream for "cleaning pay". Is that what you want? You want extra pay for rearranging seat belts and emptying seat back pouches?? If that is the case, maybe you do derserve to lose the job after all.

I already did lose my job. But thank you for your sensitivity to my co-workers.

US F/As make per diem while cleaning aircraft, as do WN F/As. Who is bringing it up in negotiations and threatening to strike? The ones in the khakis.

I think you should back down if you dont know what you're talking about. Please give us a source for your "dirty work" quote.

 

[El Gato]

El Gato: Where do you get your information that F/A's are refusing to clean airplanes because it is the "dirty work"??? Where do you get these facts??? We have lots of cleaning stations and I know of no-one who has ever refused to clean where we are designated to do so. I even have seen many pilots help us out????

In My Opinion, the company does NOT want us to fly. :down:

Kitty, then why do we have aircraft cleaners at the hubs? Eh?

I agree with you that it seems the company does not want, or rather CARE about how many hours you fly. Had they really cared, they never would have let ALPA get away with the contract that gives out all of this "bid sheet" nonsense. Bid the line, fly the line. It SHOULD be that simple, but you ask any skeddie about it, and they will give you an earful of the crap that goes on.

 

[PropPiedmont]

I blocked 96.5 hours for April, but then again I'm just slave labor at a wholly owned. Right now 90+ hours is the norm for us.

 

[El Gato]

I already did lose my job. But thank you for your sensitivity to my co-workers.

US F/As make per diem while cleaning aircraft, as do WN F/As. Who is bringing it up in negotiations and threatening to strike? The ones in the khakis.

I think you should back down if you dont know what you're talking about. Please give us a source for your "dirty work" quote.

WN f/as are not going on strike. They are in negotiations, simple as that. Ask any WN f/a out there right now, and they will tell you that it is all just posturing.....you think they want to end up unemployed like you? Sorry, but your dreams of WN shutting down is just that, a dream.

US f/a's are cleaning aircraft? Better tell that to the designated aircraft cleaners at PHL and PIT and CLT, so they can file a grievence against you for stealing their work.

Who is the source for the "dirty work" quote? The Flight Attendants of US Airways, that's who. Get on any US flight, and watch to see if what you say is really happening. It isn't, which makes you a liar. As soon as the last passenger is off, and the aircraft cleaners have boarded at L/R 4, they are moving off the plane. And a captain helping out cleaning a plane?!?!?! What do you think this is, Piedmont or PSA? No, this is US Airways, and nobody wants to pitch in or lend a hand to try to save things.

 

[El Gato]

I blocked 96.5 hours for April, but then again I'm just slave labor at a wholly owned. Right now 90+ hours is the norm for us.

First, kudos to you for doing a great job and then some. 96.5 hours a month? Jeez, if we had guys like you at mainline, we could kill WN at PHL! The wholly owned carriers are the best example of how things should be run at mainline in a way. It's not about the pay so much as the time.

You guys seem to be getting the wrong end of the stick. You fly good hours, but get crummy pay only because, "it's only a prop-job". I have always thought that was so wrong. I don't care if it is a 747 or a 340B, a flight is a flight. Never understood the whole, "I have more seats behind me with bigger engines besides me, therefore I deserve more pay" arguement.

 

[Light Years]

WN f/as are not going on strike. They are in negotiations, simple as that. Ask any WN f/a out there right now, and they will tell you that it is all just posturing.....you think they want to end up unemployed like you? Sorry, but your dreams of WN shutting down is just that, a dream.

US f/a's are cleaning aircraft? Better tell that to the designated aircraft cleaners at PHL and PIT and CLT, so they can file a grievence against you for stealing their work.

Who is the source for the "dirty work" quote? The Flight Attendants of US Airways, that's who. Get on any US flight, and watch to see if what you say is really happening. It isn't, which makes you a liar. As soon as the last passenger is off, and the aircraft cleaners have boarded at L/R 4, they are moving off the plane. And a captain helping out cleaning a plane?!?!?! What do you think this is, Piedmont or PSA? No, this is US Airways, and nobody wants to pitch in or lend a hand to try to save things.

Well, I'm not unemployed, but enough about me...

Yes there are cleaners in the hubs. There will always be cleaners for the larger aircraft and the amount of them coming in and out and switching crews. But are you under the impression that when a plane taxies into, oh, Nashville or Dallas that a bunch of US Airways cleaners jump on? Your lucky if theres an agent in most stations these days.

And why, pray tell would you even be on the plane when the cleaning goes on? You're obviously not an employee (at least a front line one)- at US Airways we use 1L 1R for doors, not L1 L2. So when is this big bitchfest you're trying to convince us of?

And again, please share with us when and where you heard one of our F/As talking about dirty work. You have yet to back up your claims and have been proven wrong. That makes you a liar and not me.

And yes, I have seen pilots chip in. You won't see crews doing someone else's unionized job (thats called solidarity) but when its thier responsibilty they do it.

You know, El Gato, you come on here and do an awful lot of accusing with an awful lack of info. I want to pitch in and certainly want for US Airways to be successful, as do the majority of the employees. Since you apparently know me well enough to call me a liar (?), please inform me of exactly how I personally have failed the company. When I was furloughed I was on the 105 hour option on domestic. Yes thats one hundred and five. Eagerly awaiting your thoughts.

I'm getting kind of tired of these people coming on here feeling they can bash groups of people because the airline they work for cant make money. Hence Joanie in my avatar freaking out with her wire hanger.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

El Gato, the question you ask is valid. With a senior pilot group like U, just about every pilot has beween 28 and 44(not sure what the upper limit is now) days of vacation, which comes out to about 4 weeks off during the year. Vacation pays 3:45 now, so you only get a little over 26 hours credit for that week. It actually puts a pilot a little behind for the month in terms of days left to work. The idea of one pilot working less than another is outdated. Just about EVERYONE that CAN fly 85 hours IS doing it. The rest are limited by a company mandated reserve system, that balances the time, and uses up to 4 pilots in each seat to fly a simple 3 day. The strange thing is, the bid sheet worked on a principle that you had to go and GET your time, and get it as efficiently as possible. Holidays were always covered, and pilots were almost always willing to help out, because they knew it would move them closer to finishing for the month. Now, with virtually none of the reserves timing out, there is little motivation to go fly unless you are told to do so. The sad truth, in my feeble opinion, is there is at least 25% more flying that could be done right now, using the existing pilot group and not even changing the workrules. I am not sure if this is what you were looking for. There is a subtle opinon that exists that the pilot group is simply bagging it and not pulling their load. The operations statistics would prove otherwise. One other thought, since a pilots retirement contributions are directly related to each months earnings, there is little reason for any pilot to not want to get as much time as possible. Greeter.

 

[BoeingBoy]

El Gato,

First, I've answered your question at least twice. If you didn't care to read my answer then why should I answer it now.

Second, it would be nice if you would get some facts, much less get them straight, before you shoot off at the keyboard. Example, WN f/a's are in negotiations now wanting to be paid to clean the airplanes. Like our f/a's, they are not paid while the plane is on the ground.

I'd like to say I missed your absense, but since I can't mean it I won't say it.

Jim

 

[700UW]

El Gato, god forbid you would post anything that is correct.

US flies into 89 mainline stations mechanics only pushback at CLT, PHL, PIT, DCA and LGA, and there are no extra mechanics carried on the headcount because of this as every single US Airways Airplane must have a daily check done during the day by one of our mechanics or they would not be able to fly.

Second, WN's F/A's are willing to strike over not getting paid to clean planes. Go to their web site and it will inform you of that fact, as a clear case James Parker head of WN has stepped out of federally mediated negotiations and Herb as come out of his semi-retirement to head up the negotiations.

http://local556.twuatd.org/

http://local556.twuatd.org/sos/Index.htm

“Working for Freeâ€￾
As you all know, our turn time has increased as a result of growth and security procedures and since we Flight Attendants are only paid for time in the air, increases in ground time affect Flight Attendant pay and all the time spent at the gate is unpaid. That is right; when we check-in one hour before our flight leaves, we are not being paid; while we are boarding and deplaning customers, we are not being paid; if there is a delay at the gate, we do not get paid and during scheduled ground time, we are not paid. We do not mind “tidyingâ€￾ the aircraft between flights. We are proud of the work that we do and to make this contribution to SWA’s legendary on time performance. We just want to be paid for our time at work like every other SWA Employee.

Holiday Pay
We do not mind working the Holidays and we know it is our job to get our Customers to their destinations every day of the year. Working holidays is part of all of our jobs. All other Employees except Pilots have some type of Holiday Pay. We are seeking extra compensation equitable to other work groups to reward the Flight Attendants who have to spend holidays away from their families.

Third US F/A are required to clean at 25 stations as there are only utility at eight stations during days and seconds.

And they do not have the time or resources to clean the planes right and have you ever been stuck with a used needle?

All of your posts have been nothing but insults, degratory comments and misinformation, no go back to your management job at labor relations and think of some more things to spread hate and discontent.

 

[ktflyhome]

At cleaning stations, we are expected to clean out all seat pockets of trash, floor of trash, seats of trash and cross seat belts. No , we do not get the brooms or sweepers out, as there is little time to do so. No we don't get the windex out either. Yes, pilots (not all, but most) will help. On RON's at cleaning stations, F/A's don't clean when going to an overnight.

 

[MarkMyWords]

You know it's not your pay that is the problem, ALPA can prove that readily. You know it is not the IAM that is the problem, although for some unknown reason they are still pushing back planes. You know it isn't even the AFA that is the problem, even though flight attendants are refusing to clean aircraft because "it's dirty work"(Tell that to the F/A's at WN and B6). No, ladies and gentlemen, you know perfectly well what the problem is. YOU are not flying enough! The recently tallied average of hours that US pilots are putting in is about 55 hours a month....WN and B6 average 85 hours a month.

So why is this happening?

First, I would like you to offer up how many YOU did last month, then give a theory as to the reason why. I know all about the most senior pilots and their reasons, sometimes being things like "I am a dentist on the side" or "I have a jewelery store I have to run!". But what about the bulk majority of you captains and f/os?

My own theory is that the line bid process is way out of whack, and that the crew scheduling is totally mismanaged. In addition, the flight lines are done all wrong as well....maybe PHL can't turn a plane in 30 minutes, but I think PIT and CLT and the outer stations can. A WN captain bids a line for the year and flies it - no BS. A US captain, well has "options" and when everyone excercises their options it all gets fubar very fast.

So, once again I ask you. How much are you flying? and what do you think is the cause for it? and how can you change it?

I am not trying to be offensive to any of you, but this isn't exactly the time for half baked attitudes towards our jobs. Got to save them now, or else.

El Gato -

I agree with 700UW, don't let the facts and your ignorance stand in your way of spouting pure crap and trying to stir the pot.

You asked the Pilots how many ours they flew this month....but what you fail to recognize is that there is a difference between their 85 hours of scheduled time and true hard time flying. Who has control over that, the Pilot or the Company? The company is the one that creates the blocks and trip pairings. It is the company that schedules the aircraft and productivity breaks. Ask any Pilot and they will tell you that when they are at work, they would love to work hard time as much as possilbe. No one likes to sit around doing nothing. If the company wants improvement in this area, then they need to refine the parameters used to create schedule blocks.

When comparing WN and B6 to US, you need to understand that there will be differences due to the operational environments. Hub and spoke carriers will be less productive because of how they are designed versus the point to point carriers. It is the nature of the beast. In order to roll a hub (continuous flight operations) you need a strong O & D market supplimented by connecting customers. Hubs like PIT and CLT rely to heavily on connecting traffic to fill airplanes, so rolling airplanes through those stations every 30 minutes wouldn't be as beneficial as it would in a station like PHL, DCA, LGA and BOS.

As for your comments on AFA and the "dirty work", do you have any idea how that group of employees are paid? They are paid from ACARS generated OUT to IN times. That means that when they are cleaning the airplane (technically) it is free work. When they are boarding an airplane - taking pre-departure drink orders, hanging coats, stuffing overheads, finding pillows and blankets, helping with families not seated together, fixing dupe seat assignments, getting passenger counts, etc....they are (technically) not being paid. When that same plane full of customers takes a mechanical AFTER it is boarded and that mechanical creeps for a couple of hours - they are not getting paid to hand out beverages and taking care of customer needs, but they do it anyway and nearly always with a smile.

We maintain utility staffing in hub/large stations because of the volume of airplanes that we run through those stations. It is not feasible to ask crews to clean airplanes in these stations due to the number of crew changes and the distance that some of these flights travel. Have you seen the inside of an airplane that come in from the west coast after customers have nested in there for 6 hours?

700UW pretty much covered my thoughts on pushback, so please feel free to re-read his post.

El Gato - by all means, EDUCATE yourself before you post things. Your lack of knowledge and a grasp on other peoples jobs make you look foolish.