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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Yes, the sea of change is the merger. Like the letter above stated, a merger can affect the east's plans to side step an arbitration that," should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud." Proving gross negligence or fraud is the only LUP that could keep USAPA off, "dangerous ground," if they choose to abandon the Nic. Saying it's not fair just doesn't cut it from a legal standing point. Maybe USAPA has some grand game plan I'm not aware of, but I don't see how they're going to get around the eventual implementation of the Nic, maybe delay it a little like they have been doing, but not for much longer.

I just hope that no matter the outcome we (east and west) can all be professional when we eventually fly together. A relative went through a merger at Air Canada a long time ago and he said there is still anger and animosity even after all these years. He said jokingly that you can sleep with a pilot's wife and he may forgive you, but mess with his seniority and he'll take the grudge to his grave.

Bean
Here is THE standard by which ALL DFR's are measured. In NO WAY can Silver grant what the AOL pilots want....NO WAY!

"FOR PUBLICATION

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT

ü CHERYL ANN BECK, Plaintiff-Appellee, No. 05-16414 v. D.C. No. ý CV-02-00495-EHC UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS UNION, Local 99, OPINION Defendant-Appellant. þ

Appeal from the United States District Court for the District of Arizona Earl H. Carroll, District Judge, Presiding

Argued and Submitted May 14, 2007ÐSan Francisco, California

Filed November 1, 2007

Before: Cynthia Holcomb Hall, Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain, and Sandra S. Ikuta, Circuit Judges.

Opinion by Judge Ikuta"

"We first turn to the district court's holding that Local 99 breached its duty of fair representation in handling Beck's grievances. ªThe duty of fair representation is a judicially established rule imposed on labor organizations because of their status as the exclusive bargaining representative for all of the employees in a given bargaining unit.º Peterson v. Ken-nedy, 771 F.2d 1244, 1253 (9th Cir. 1985). The duty of fair representation exists because a single labor organization rep-resents the interests of all employees within a unit, and ªif individual employees are not to be deprived of all effective means of protecting their own interests, it must be the duty of the representative organization to `serve the interests of all members without hostility or discrimination toward any, to exercise its discretion with complete good faith and honesty, and to avoid arbitrary conduct.' º DelCostello v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters, 462 U.S. 151, 164 n.14 (1983) (quoting Vaca v. Sipes, 386 U.S. 171, 177 (1967)). The burden of proving a breach of the duty of fair representation is on the plaintiff. Vaca, 386 U.S. at 193; Slevira v. W. Sugar Co., 200 F.3d 1218, 1221 (9th Cir. 2000) (citing Vaca).

A union breaches its duty of fair representation when its ªconduct toward a member of the collective bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.º Vaca, 386 U.S. at 190; see also Air Line Pilots Ass'n. Int'l v. O'Neill, 499 U.S. 65, 67 (1991). Conduct can be classified as arbitrary ªonly when it is irrational, when it is without a rational basis or explanation.º Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild, Inc., 525 U.S. 33, 46 (1998). This deferential standard for arbitrary conduct ªgives the union room to make discretionary deci-sions and choices, even if those judgments are ultimately wrong.º Marquez, 525 U.S. at 45-46.

In light of this standard, we have analyzed the breach of the duty of fair representation on a continuum. See Peters v. Bur-lington N.R.R. Co., 931 F.2d 534, 539-40 (9th Cir. 1991) (ª `[M]inisterial act' and `act of judgment' represent . . . opposing points on a continuum that broadly attempts to sepa-rate discretionary decision making from inexplicable con-duct.º); see also Marino v. Writers Guild of Am., E., Inc., 992 F.2d 1480, 1486 (9th Cir. 1993).

On one end of the continuum is intentional conduct by a union exercising its judgment. Peters, 931 F.3d at 539-40. As noted above, a union's conduct constitutes an exercise of judgment entitled to deference even when the union's ªjudg-ments are ultimately wrong.º Marquez, 525 U.S. at 45-46. Under Supreme Court precedents, so long as a union exercises its judgment, no matter how mistakenly, it will not be deemed to be wholly irrational. Id. at 46; O'Neill, 499 U.S. at 78. We may decline to give a union the deference owed to an exercise of judgment only where union actions or inactions are ªso far outside a wide range of reasonableness that [they are] wholly irrational or arbitrary.º O'Neill, 499 U.S. at 78 (internal quo-tations and citations omitted); see also Peters, 931 F.2d at 540 (ªt makes little sense to allow a union to hide behind the mantle of `judgment' and `discretion' when the evidence sug-gests that it actually exercised neither.º); Peterson v. Ken-nedy, 771 F.2d 1244, 1254 (1985) (ªIn all cases in which we found a breach of the duty of fair representation based on a union's arbitrary conduct, it is clear that the union failed to perform a procedural or ministerial act, that the act in ques-tion did not require the exercise of judgment and that there was no rational and proper basis for the union's conduct.º (emphasis added)).

Although we cannot deem a union's exercises of judgment to be wholly irrational and thus arbitrary, a union can still breach the duty of fair representation if it exercised its judg-ment in bad faith or in a discriminatory manner. Moore v. Bechtel Power Corp., 840 F.2d 634, 636 (9th Cir. 1988). To establish that the union's exercise of judgment was discrimi-natory, a plaintiff must adduce ªsubstantial evidence of dis-crimination that is intentional, severe, and unrelated to legitimate union objectives.º Amalgamated Ass'n of St., Elec. Ry. & Motor Coach Employees of Am. v. Lockridge, 403 U.S. 274, 301 (1971) (internal quotations omitted); see also Vaca, 386 U.S. at 177. To establish that the union's exercise of judgment was in bad faith, the plaintiff must show ªsubstan-tial evidence of fraud, deceitful action or dishonest conduct.º Lockridge, 403 U.S. at 299.

On the other end of the continuum are actions or omissions that are unintentional, irrational or wholly inexplicable, such as an irrational failure to perform a ministerial or procedural act, Dutrisac v. Caterpillar Tractor Co., 749 F.2d 1270, 1273 (9th Cir. 1983); see also Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild, Inc., 124 F.3d 1034, 1043 (9th Cir. 1997), aff'd, 525 U.S. 33 (1998). We have referred to such actions or omissions as ªar-bitraryº action. For example, courts have consistently refused to accept unions' claims that their actions involved any judg-ment or strategy where the union simply failed to perform some procedural act. See, e.g., Peters, 931 F.2d at 541 (ª[plaintiff] had presented a triable question as to whether the union acted in a completely arbitrary, indifferent manner by failing to research the [collective bargaining agreement]º); Moore, 840 F.2d at 637 (failure to provide notice of meetings and tardy notification of a grievance decision might be arbi-trary); Galindo v. Stoody Co., 793 F.2d 1502, 1514 (9th Cir.1986) (union representative's failure to notify employer that employee was a steward was arbitrary where the representa-tive knew of impending layoffs); Dutrisac, 749 F.2d at 1274 (union's failure to file a grievance on time was arbitrary); Robesky v. Qantas Empire Airways, Ltd., 573 F.2d 1082, 1091 (9th Cir. 1978) (ªtrier of fact could reasonably find that the Union's failure to disclose to appellant that her grievance would not be submitted to arbitrationº was arbitrary).

These arbitrary actions can breach the duty of fair represen-tation only where the act substantially injures the union mem-ber. Such an injury may arise in situations where ªthe individual interest at stake is strongº and the union's arbitrary action or omission ªcompletely extinguishes the employee's [grievance] right,º Dutrisac, 749 F.2d at 1274, or where the union's arbitrary actions ª `reflect reckless disregard for the rights of an individual employee,' º or ª `severely prejudice the injured employee' º under circumstances that do not fur-ther the policies underlying the duty of fair representation. Marquez, 124 F.3d at 1043 (quoting Robesky, 573 F.2d at 1090).

[1] In sum, in order to hold that union conduct breached the duty of fair representation, we must determine either that the union conduct at issue is a discriminatory or bad faith exercise of judgment, or is an arbitrary (meaning wholly irrational, inexplicable, or unintentional) action that substantially injured an employee. See, e.g., Marino v. Writers Guild of Am., E., Inc., 992 F.2d 1480, 1486 (9th Cir. 1993).

We review de novo the question whether the union engaged in arbitrary conduct that substantially injured a member, and thus amounted to a breach of its duty of fair representation. Galindo, 793 F.2d at 1513 (citing United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1204 (9th Cir. 1984) (en banc))."

Although this is a title VII case, the standard for DFR remains the same. The "goal posts" that USAPA has to defend on the Continuum are Ministerial act as one post and Act of Judgement as the other post. There is NO WAY AOL will prevail.

I will agree with Bean only that this sore will fester and infect the APA that when APA negotiates a new CBA in 2019 there will be plenty of pilots to cross any picket line APA tries to erect.


 
Bingo! We have a winner! December 31, 2018 the APA boys and girls have no idea who they got in bed with when the cut this deal with Tempe! Glass is a master at what he does. Bankruptcy MOU for the next six years. Classic!

Hate
 
Website Review of unbiasedfacts.org

Meta information Domain IP 50.62.114.1 Organisation GoDaddy.com ISP Domain officermation Domain Location United States - US , USA
Region: AZ , Arizona
City: Scottsdale
Postal code: 85260
Latitude: 33.6119 , Longitude: -111.8906
Metro code: 753 Area code: 480
Domain Location on the Map:



http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com/

It's widely know the site was created by an Easf pilot.

So if an East pilot from Kudzu, NC or Rustbelt, PA registers a domain, what's to keep him from using a Scottsdale address? Go Daddy is an Arizona company as well.
 
Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I don't imagine that will be any real problem, regardless of all the mutually juvenile nyaah-nyaahs and/or even overt hostility tossed about for years, especially when the dilution via many thousands of AMR folks is factored in.

I am glad that you are overly optimistic but I am pretty sure that when the Nic is implemented guys like yourself will go off the deep end. You should get the suicide hotline number on speed dial soon.
 
I am glad that you are overly optimistic but I am pretty sure that when the Nic is implemented guys like yourself will go off the deep end. You should get the suicide hotline number on speed dial soon.

Why don't you just give it to him? From your posts it appears you would have it.
 
Here is THE standard by which ALL DFR's are measured. In NO WAY can Silver grant what the AOL pilots want....NO WAY!

"FOR PUBLICATION

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT

ü CHERYL ANN BECK, Plaintiff-Appellee, No. 05-16414 v. D.C. No. ý CV-02-00495-EHC UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS UNION, Local 99, OPINION Defendant-Appellant. þ

Appeal from the United States District Court for the District of Arizona Earl H. Carroll, District Judge, Presiding

Argued and Submitted May 14, 2007ÐSan Francisco, California

Filed November 1, 2007

Before: Cynthia Holcomb Hall, Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain, and Sandra S. Ikuta, Circuit Judges.

Opinion by Judge Ikuta"

"We first turn to the district court's holding that Local 99 breached its duty of fair representation in handling Beck's grievances. ªThe duty of fair representation is a judicially established rule imposed on labor organizations because of their status as the exclusive bargaining representative for all of the employees in a given bargaining unit.º Peterson v. Ken-nedy, 771 F.2d 1244, 1253 (9th Cir. 1985). The duty of fair representation exists because a single labor organization rep-resents the interests of all employees within a unit, and ªif individual employees are not to be deprived of all effective means of protecting their own interests, it must be the duty of the representative organization to `serve the interests of all members without hostility or discrimination toward any, to exercise its discretion with complete good faith and honesty, and to avoid arbitrary conduct.' º DelCostello v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters, 462 U.S. 151, 164 n.14 (1983) (quoting Vaca v. Sipes, 386 U.S. 171, 177 (1967)). The burden of proving a breach of the duty of fair representation is on the plaintiff. Vaca, 386 U.S. at 193; Slevira v. W. Sugar Co., 200 F.3d 1218, 1221 (9th Cir. 2000) (citing Vaca).

A union breaches its duty of fair representation when its ªconduct toward a member of the collective bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.º Vaca, 386 U.S. at 190; see also Air Line Pilots Ass'n. Int'l v. O'Neill, 499 U.S. 65, 67 (1991). Conduct can be classified as arbitrary ªonly when it is irrational, when it is without a rational basis or explanation.º Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild, Inc., 525 U.S. 33, 46 (1998). This deferential standard for arbitrary conduct ªgives the union room to make discretionary deci-sions and choices, even if those judgments are ultimately wrong.º Marquez, 525 U.S. at 45-46.

In light of this standard, we have analyzed the breach of the duty of fair representation on a continuum. See Peters v. Bur-lington N.R.R. Co., 931 F.2d 534, 539-40 (9th Cir. 1991) (ª `[M]inisterial act' and `act of judgment' represent . . . opposing points on a continuum that broadly attempts to sepa-rate discretionary decision making from inexplicable con-duct.&ordm😉; see also Marino v. Writers Guild of Am., E., Inc., 992 F.2d 1480, 1486 (9th Cir. 1993).

On one end of the continuum is intentional conduct by a union exercising its judgment. Peters, 931 F.3d at 539-40. As noted above, a union's conduct constitutes an exercise of judgment entitled to deference even when the union's ªjudg-ments are ultimately wrong.º Marquez, 525 U.S. at 45-46. Under Supreme Court precedents, so long as a union exercises its judgment, no matter how mistakenly, it will not be deemed to be wholly irrational. Id. at 46; O'Neill, 499 U.S. at 78. We may decline to give a union the deference owed to an exercise of judgment only where union actions or inactions are ªso far outside a wide range of reasonableness that [they are] wholly irrational or arbitrary.º O'Neill, 499 U.S. at 78 (internal quo-tations and citations omitted); see also Peters, 931 F.2d at 540 (ªt makes little sense to allow a union to hide behind the mantle of `judgment' and `discretion' when the evidence sug-gests that it actually exercised neither.&ordm😉; Peterson v. Ken-nedy, 771 F.2d 1244, 1254 (1985) (ªIn all cases in which we found a breach of the duty of fair representation based on a union's arbitrary conduct, it is clear that the union failed to perform a procedural or ministerial act, that the act in ques-tion did not require the exercise of judgment and that there was no rational and proper basis for the union's conduct.º (emphasis added)).

Although we cannot deem a union's exercises of judgment to be wholly irrational and thus arbitrary, a union can still breach the duty of fair representation if it exercised its judg-ment in bad faith or in a discriminatory manner. Moore v. Bechtel Power Corp., 840 F.2d 634, 636 (9th Cir. 1988). To establish that the union's exercise of judgment was discrimi-natory, a plaintiff must adduce ªsubstantial evidence of dis-crimination that is intentional, severe, and unrelated to legitimate union objectives.º Amalgamated Ass'n of St., Elec. Ry. & Motor Coach Employees of Am. v. Lockridge, 403 U.S. 274, 301 (1971) (internal quotations omitted); see also Vaca, 386 U.S. at 177. To establish that the union's exercise of judgment was in bad faith, the plaintiff must show ªsubstan-tial evidence of fraud, deceitful action or dishonest conduct.º Lockridge, 403 U.S. at 299.

On the other end of the continuum are actions or omissions that are unintentional, irrational or wholly inexplicable, such as an irrational failure to perform a ministerial or procedural act, Dutrisac v. Caterpillar Tractor Co., 749 F.2d 1270, 1273 (9th Cir. 1983); see also Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild, Inc., 124 F.3d 1034, 1043 (9th Cir. 1997), aff'd, 525 U.S. 33 (1998). We have referred to such actions or omissions as ªar-bitraryº action. For example, courts have consistently refused to accept unions' claims that their actions involved any judg-ment or strategy where the union simply failed to perform some procedural act. See, e.g., Peters, 931 F.2d at 541 (ª[plaintiff] had presented a triable question as to whether the union acted in a completely arbitrary, indifferent manner by failing to research the [collective bargaining agreement]&ordm😉; Moore, 840 F.2d at 637 (failure to provide notice of meetings and tardy notification of a grievance decision might be arbi-trary); Galindo v. Stoody Co., 793 F.2d 1502, 1514 (9th Cir.1986) (union representative's failure to notify employer that employee was a steward was arbitrary where the representa-tive knew of impending layoffs); Dutrisac, 749 F.2d at 1274 (union's failure to file a grievance on time was arbitrary); Robesky v. Qantas Empire Airways, Ltd., 573 F.2d 1082, 1091 (9th Cir. 1978) (ªtrier of fact could reasonably find that the Union's failure to disclose to appellant that her grievance would not be submitted to arbitrationº was arbitrary).

These arbitrary actions can breach the duty of fair represen-tation only where the act substantially injures the union mem-ber. Such an injury may arise in situations where ªthe individual interest at stake is strongº and the union's arbitrary action or omission ªcompletely extinguishes the employee's [grievance] right,º Dutrisac, 749 F.2d at 1274, or where the union's arbitrary actions ª `reflect reckless disregard for the rights of an individual employee,' º or ª `severely prejudice the injured employee' º under circumstances that do not fur-ther the policies underlying the duty of fair representation. Marquez, 124 F.3d at 1043 (quoting Robesky, 573 F.2d at 1090).

[1] In sum, in order to hold that union conduct breached the duty of fair representation, we must determine either that the union conduct at issue is a discriminatory or bad faith exercise of judgment, or is an arbitrary (meaning wholly irrational, inexplicable, or unintentional) action that substantially injured an employee. See, e.g., Marino v. Writers Guild of Am., E., Inc., 992 F.2d 1480, 1486 (9th Cir. 1993).

We review de novo the question whether the union engaged in arbitrary conduct that substantially injured a member, and thus amounted to a breach of its duty of fair representation. Galindo, 793 F.2d at 1513 (citing United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1204 (9th Cir. 1984) (en banc))."

Although this is a title VII case, the standard for DFR remains the same. The "goal posts" that USAPA has to defend on the Continuum are Ministerial act as one post and Act of Judgement as the other post. There is NO WAY AOL will prevail.

I will agree with Bean only that this sore will fester and infect the APA that when APA negotiates a new CBA in 2019 there will be plenty of pilots to cross any picket line APA tries to erect.


Just the fact that you say there is, "NO WAY AOL will prevail," makes me wonder. USAPA has been warned repeatedly by judges and even its own lawyers about the dangers of setting aside the Nic and using DOH. The above case, while it does show the 9ths take on DFRs, is not the same situation as ours.

I think your train of thought is that even if Silver rules in favor of AOL, USAPA will go to the ninth? This action will allow USAPA to carry on with its DOH agenda? When the dust settles AOL will try at a DFR and fail, because even if they win the first time, you'll be able to go to the ninth to have it corrected? Is that a good summation? From my point of view, the ninth only ruled on ripeness, not the merits. As far as DFRs go, yes they're hard to prove, but lets face it, USAPA has been very, very naughty and has not done a very good job of covering it up. The east blatantly formed a union with the sole purpose of tossing the Nic. and harming the west with a DOH integration. USAPA's first mistake was making the Nic it’s sole focus, it's second was practically putting DOH in bold letters on the entrance door.

The reason management and the APA don't want to have any part of USAPA's attempts to vacate the arbitration is that they are not blinded by emotion and are well aware of the consequences of completely ignoring and vacating an arbitration that was not proved to contain gross negligence or fraud. Yes, I know you probably think it was grossly negligent, but you’re biased, just like me. Regardless of my personal views on seniority, I just don't see how USAPA is going to be able to discard the Nic and implement it's DOH policy.

I’m not sure what you meant about crossing a picket line. I can only speak for myself. I’ve never crossed a strike line and never will.

Bean
 
Few here continue to raise real questions and debate the current litigation. Most seem relegated to the same rut that somehow the evil intent in the formation of USAPA has any bearing after over 5 years. In fact, even Judge Silver has moved past that, narrowing the issue to USAPA's requirement to use the NIC in in the MOU. She has framed that issue as a new one, thus a trial. And then we have the issue of West getting a seat at the table. I have already asked exactly WHO will represent the West Class at the M/B table? Whether it is LEO, AWAPPA, the 24 who voted against the MOU, or the 500 who are not union members at all--SOMEONE has to be responsible for the product that follows, you know, so LEO will have somebody to sue after a JCBA. Will Judge Silver give a certain party the ability to negotiate with no responsibility for the product? Good luck with that. One more reason the Courts have been loath to give separate party status to union members already represented by a bargaining agent (the exact agent that is also held responsible in a DFR.) RR
 
BOSE just came out with a new noise canceling set of ear buds and started selling them 2 days ago. I was impressed and my old ones were getting up in years. These new ones sell for $299, so I told the sales lady that maybe I would get a pair for my BD in a couple of months. Here's the good part......I found that BOSE has a special deal that is open to the public......you can purchase any of their products by signing a form and using your credit card....no credit checks or hoops to jump through (quick transaction). The agreement is that each month they will charge your cc $25 to pay off the item. No interest is charged, just purchase the item, sign a form allowing them to charge $25/mo, and you're on you way. In my case, the first charge is $47 which includes the sales tax, then they charge my card $25/mo for 11 months, interest free.

They look nice.

I have a pair of Sennheisers for the cokpit (hired into the noisy 737-200/300) and still have a pair of the old bulky Bose for non-reving. Unfortunately my youngest stepped on the Bose pair and now one side of the band is wrapped in black electrical tape. I know, real classy. Could be worse, I could have used silver duct tape ala Red Green 🙂

Bean
 
Just the fact that you say there is, "NO WAY AOL will prevail," makes me wonder. USAPA has been warned repeatedly by judges and even its own lawyers about the dangers of setting aside the Nic and using DOH. The above case, while it does show the 9ths take on DFRs, is not the same situation as ours.

I think your train of thought is that even if Silver rules in favor of AOL, USAPA will go to the ninth? This action will allow USAPA to carry on with its DOH agenda? When the dust settles AOL will try at a DFR and fail, because even if they win the first time, you'll be able to go to the ninth to have it corrected? Is that a good summation? From my point of view, the ninth only ruled on ripeness, not the merits. As far as DFRs go, yes they're hard to prove, but lets face it, USAPA has been very, very naughty and has not done a very good job of covering it up. The east blatantly formed a union with the sole purpose of tossing the Nic. and harming the west with a DOH integration. USAPA's first mistake was making the Nic it’s sole focus, it's second was practically putting DOH in bold letters on the entrance door.

The reason management and the APA don't want to have any part of USAPA's attempts to vacate the arbitration is that they are not blinded by emotion and are well aware of the consequences of completely ignoring and vacating an arbitration that was not proved to contain gross negligence or fraud. Yes, I know you probably think it was grossly negligent, but you’re biased, just like me. Regardless of my personal views on seniority, I just don't see how USAPA is going to be able to discard the Nic and implement it's DOH policy.

I’m not sure what you meant about crossing a picket line. I can only speak for myself. I’ve never crossed a strike line and never will.

Bean
First, you are correct in that the Ninth ruled on ripeness DIRECTLY. I am not going to reiterate the arguments except to say that although they didn't get to the merits they DID examine why they didn't argue them procedurally but mainly by arguing against the dissent. THAT argument is where they alluded to the problems inherent in the transition agreements: ALPA merger policy REQUIRED a ratification vote of both East and West majorities by which NO agreement would pass otherwise. It IS in the opinion and it IS recognized as legitimate. In short, US Airways WND ALPA negotiated the transition agreement with an unenforceable "contract" provision if you will.

How was the separate voting ratification agreement going to be solved? More money? No one wanted the money Kirby was offering....so what then?
 
Few here continue to raise real questions and debate the current litigation. Most seem relegated to the same rut that somehow the evil intent in the formation of USAPA has any bearing after over 5 years. In fact, even Judge Silver has moved past that, narrowing the issue to USAPA's requirement to use the NIC in in the MOU. She has framed that issue as a new one, thus a trial. And then we have the issue of West getting a seat at the table. I have already asked exactly WHO will represent the West Class at the M/B table? Whether it is LEO, AWAPPA, the 24 who voted against the MOU, or the 500 who are not union members at all--SOMEONE has to be responsible for the product that follows, you know, so LEO will have somebody to sue after a JCBA. Will Judge Silver give a certain party the ability to negotiate with no responsibility for the product? Good luck with that. One more reason the Courts have been loath to give separate party status to union members already represented by a bargaining agent (the exact agent that is also held responsible in a DFR.) RR
That is the crux of it.
 
Few here continue to raise real questions and debate the current litigation. Most seem relegated to the same rut that somehow the evil intent in the formation of USAPA has any bearing after over 5 years. In fact, even Judge Silver has moved past that, narrowing the issue to USAPA's requirement to use the NIC in in the MOU. She has framed that issue as a new one, thus a trial. And then we have the issue of West getting a seat at the table. I have already asked exactly WHO will represent the West Class at the M/B table? Whether it is LEO, AWAPPA, the 24 who voted against the MOU, or the 500 who are not union members at all--SOMEONE has to be responsible for the product that follows, you know, so LEO will have somebody to sue after a JCBA. Will Judge Silver give a certain party the ability to negotiate with no responsibility for the product? Good luck with that. One more reason the Courts have been loath to give separate party status to union members already represented by a bargaining agent (the exact agent that is also held responsible in a DFR.) RR

I think it repeatedly is brought up, because USAPA seems to have not changed much. The formation of USAPA created a real mess. I agree, adding a third part to M/B is unusual. When in the history of Unions however, has a situation like this come up? The east ventured into new territory when they formed USAPA to discard the Nic.

Bean
 
Not sure who put together the table showing a recent East Perm Bid bottom C\O seniority # award vs St Nic. Think the difference approximated 14-15 years difference if my poor memory is accurate .
Bunch new east bid C/O results soon, would be really cool to see that data with this new bid and awaken any potential APA folks sleeping thru the rediculous windfall our west brethren would get if EVER a Nic type bid entertained.
 
Not sure who put together the table showing a recent East Perm Bid bottom C\O seniority # award vs St Nic. Think the difference approximated 14-15 years difference if my poor memory is accurate .
Bunch new east bid C/O results soon, would be really cool to see that data with this new bid and awaken any potential APA folks sleeping thru the rediculous windfall our west brethren would get if EVER a Nic type bid entertained.

I don't think the APA wants the Nic, they just want this completed properly. The thought on the three way MB/arbitration is that is will be done with, Nic or not.

Bean
 
Bunch new east bid C/O results soon, would be really cool to see that data with this new bid and awaken any potential APA folks sleeping thru the rediculous windfall our west brethren would get if EVER a Nic type bid entertained.

This SLI is going to be slotting by equipment and status.

APA does not care about the internal order of our seniority list.
 
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