August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

The America West drug running chief pilots, director of flt ops were sheltered by the AZ courts. Expect the same for the Leonidas group. She will string this as far as she can. Just be prepared to take her to the 9th for a good spank like you did with Wake.
Someone please check on Cleardirect.

Still ignoring the 9th's warning?

“This court never ruled that USAPA is free to abandon the Nicolau Award,” the pilots' said. “Rather, it held that USAPA's use of date-of-hire seniority order would 'not automatically breach its duty of fair representation … the court cautioned that 'discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.'”

Furloughed pilots do not deserve to get placed above actively flying pilots of the acquiring airline as the arbitrator recognized.

Law360, New York (May 06, 2013, 8:58 PM ET) -- Former America West Airlines Inc. pilots urged an Arizona federal judge Friday to keep alive its dispute over pilot seniority in a 2005 merger with U.S. Airways Group Inc., while denying claims that they were trying to derail U.S. Airways' $11 billion merger with American Airlines' bankrupt parent.

The U.S. Airline Pilots Association petitioned U.S. District Judge Roslyn O. Silver in April to dismiss the former Am West pilots' suit because the Ninth Circuit tossed a similar action over the same issue, ruling it wasn't ripe for litigation.

But the Am West pilots said Friday that a premerger memorandum of understanding the USAPA ratified with American Airlines pilots in February was the bar needed for the issue to be ready for the courts.

“The Ninth Circuit held that there would be 'an unquestionable ripe … suit, once a contract is ratified,'” the pilots said in a motion.

The conflict was feared to be a headache for the American Airlines/U.S. Airways merger when the USAPA sued the former Am West pilots in New York bankruptcy court, alleging it was trying to hold up the deal.

An attorney for the Am West pilots has said the group had no intention of interfering with the merger, and was only trying to ensure that the provisions over pilot seniority that were hammered out in arbitration in 2007 were applied when the airlines combine.

The merger was approved by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean H. Lane in March, and the USAPA agreed in April to delay its action in bankruptcy court until the Arizona suit, which is not expected to affect U.S. Airways' merger, is resolved.

The pilots' dispute stems over how seniority rankings should be applied in the wake of a merger of U.S. Airways and Am West in 2005.

An arbiter attempted to resolve the issue by establishing a different ranking system — called the Nicolau Award — that did not use a strict date-of-hire rule to determine seniority.

The U.S. Airways pilots broke off into their own union — the USAPA — and it was certified as the representative for the entire merged airline's pilot workforce.

The former Am West pilots claim that the USAPA is now refusing to implement the Nicolau Award in the American Airlines/U.S. Airways merger, which is set to create one of the world's largest airlines, in favor of one that places furloughed U.S. Airways pilots above their Am West counterparts.

The former Am West pilots also argue that the USAPA is mischaracterizing the earlier rulings regarding the pilot ranking issue.

“This court never ruled that USAPA is free to abandon the Nicolau Award,” the pilots' said. “Rather, it held that USAPA's use of date-of-hire seniority order would 'not automatically breach its duty of fair representation … the court cautioned that 'discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.'”

The USAPA responded to the former Am West pilots with a motion of its own Friday, arguing that the group still has the same hurdles to overcome since it's not clear whether the agreement with the American Airlines pilots does actually breach the Nicolau Award.

“As plaintiffs well know, the [memorandum of understanding] does not abandon or repudiate use of the Nicolau Award,” the USAPA said. “The MOU is silent on that subject.”

The former Am West pilots are represented by is represented by Marty Harper, Andrew S. Jacob and Jennifer Axel of Polsinelli Shughart PC.

The USAPA is represented by James P. Wehner, Kevin C. Maclay and Todd E. Phillips of Caplin & Drysdale Chtd.

The case is Addington et al. v. USAPA et al., case number 2:13-cv-00471, in the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona.

--Additional reporting by Maria Chutchian and Lance Duroni. Editing by Andrew Park.

 

[snapthis]

No wonder the Franke management team of today takes care of identity thieves and assaults the legally elected bargaining agent. America West management has engaged in protecting lawbreakers for decades.

Why don't you address the facts rather than entertaining your bi-polar induced fantasies?

 

[Pi brat]

You are so dense. The whole transcript discussed exactly why a motion was considered to dismiss without prejudice. It has to do with the DOJ lawsuit- there was serious consideration to cancel the 9/24 court date because if there is no merge there is no MOU.
Once again, no merger means no MOU. Yesterday's decision has nothing to do with "not being able to change tune" but rather if there is reason enough to move forward with the trial. At the end of the day there was enough reason to move forward as scheduled. Sorry, you lose again.

Hey shite for brains, I haven't had time to read the transcipts but I was talking about previous events.

The 9thJudge said for ripeness the question couldn't be contingent on other events. This WHOLE matter is contingent on the merger happening. She decided that didnt matter when the merger looked like a sure thing, had questions after last week.

PI84 has a point, what I was alluding to. Part of your plan is for USAPA to disappear before they can appeal. Having this trial before POR throws a wrench in that.

I've aleeady won no matter what happens. Thats why you're jealous and pissed.

 

[snapthis]

Wow, if you're right you must be smarter than both Marty Harper and Bob Siegal. Enjoy your new career and remember to take the LSAT before applying to law schools.

It warms my heart when Easties deride the Leonidas lawyers. That means it's getting to them.

Remind me, what ever happened to that USAPA lawyer Bradford hired to tell him switching unions nullifies binding arbitration?

I'm remined of a day in Phoenix where Seham's law firm was critiqued. The criticisms were well founded and Nic outlasted Lee.

Sehamanski will most likely suffer the same fate. Nic stays, Sehamanski evicted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

 

[Metroyet]

I've aleeady won no matter what happens. Thats why you're jealous and pissed.

Enjoy the backslide down the list until you retire. If you're lucky, that's the worst of the damages headed your way. Rest assured no expense will be spared to push that envelope as far as possible.

 

[EastUS1]

If you're lucky, that's the worst of the damages headed your way. Rest assured no expense will be spared to push that envelope as far as possible.

Gulp!...So what are you gonna' do now? Launch all the "spartans", "dire wolves" and maybe even a west "seasoned aviator" in a Beechcraft at us? 🙂 Sigh! Grow up.

 

[Metroyet]

Gulp!...So what are you gonna' do now? Launch all the "spartans", "dire wolves" and maybe even a west "seasoned aviator" in a Beechcraft at us? 🙂 Sigh! Grow up.

No. The Spartans are going to do what they've always done...kicked your ass in the courtroom...no Beechcraft needed. No dog fights either so you can forget the pending PM you're planning on sending.

 

[Metroyet]

That IS a fact. It is truly unfortunate that Silver is an activist judge that has no understanding of the law. Clinton appointee. No surprise there.

How un-USAPA-like!!! Who would have ever guessed that you'd have the misfortune of ONCE AGAIN, running into another Federal Judge that just does not get it!!??? What are the odds!? Surly YOUR SIDE has nothing to do with all this Billion+ lost dollar debacle right? Obviously USCABAs hands are clean on all of this but sometimes luck just isn't with the righteous.

 

[EastUS1]

No. The Spartans are going to do what they've always done...

You must mean merely more chest-beating, inane declarations of fantasized "integrity", posting "This is Sparta!" as well as "Knights", "dire wolves" and such fine videos, an occasional "T Minus" countdown clock, and yet more erudite prose, such as yours? 😉

Very well. We can then expect this board to continue on as a dependable source of good chuckles. 🙂

 

[cltrat]

You must mean merely more chest-beating, inane declarations of fantasized "integrity", posting "This is Sparta!" as well as "Knights", "dire wolves" and such fine videos, an occasional "T Minus" countdown clock, and yet more erudite prose, such as yours? 😉

Very well. We can then expect this board to continue on as a dependable source of good chuckles. 🙂

lol...... priceless

 

[Phoenix]

Enjoy the backslide down the list until you retire. If you're lucky, that's the worst of the damages headed your way. Rest assured no expense will be spared to push that envelope as far as possible.

Talking about "backslide"....

MR. HARPER: And you're asking me to project out
through all of these uncertainties where we might be next March
if there is no merger.

THE COURT: Well, it's important, because I've got to
make the decision for you --

MR. HARPER: Right, but --

THE COURT: -- and so I asked you for guidance --

MR. HARPER: Yeah.

THE COURT: -- so if there's no merger whatsoever,
then your cause of action doesn't exist.

MR. HARPER: If -- if there is no merger, then the MOU
probably is null and void, and therefore we don't have a claim
under the DFR for a null and void MOU.

THE COURT: We have what I -- what I ordered
previously, right?

MR. HARPER: Correct.

THE COURT: And the order was that the defendants had
to act in good faith.

MR. HARPER: Right. They always will.

 

[mrbreeze]

And now, something totally different.... Thanks to those of you who donated to Rebecca's Tour de Cure this year. We had the 31 mile ride today and raised over $7000 for research. Even though we don't agree on all this BS, I know many of you have a good heart. Thanks! breeze

 

[snapthis]

Very well. We can then expect this board to continue on as a dependable source of good chuckles. 🙂

I found you a USAPA T-shirt.

I did not want you to feel left out🙂

Cotton T-shirt with large USAPA logo on back and small logo on left chest.

Heavyweight 100% cotton (preshrunk)
Tag-free label
Shoulder-to-shoulder taping
Coverseamed neck
Double-needle hem
5.4-ounce, 100% cotton (preshrunk)

About the USAPA
Mission
"The USA Pickleball Association (USAPA) was organized to promote the growth and development of pickleball, not only on a national but an international level. This organization provides players with official rules, tournaments, rankings and promotional materials.
The USAPA is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) corporation. It is governed by a talented Board of Directors, most of whom chair one of the important committees of this organization (see below).

The Board is committed to further the growth of pickleball among players of all ages and characteristics. It will continue to provide the infrastructure for the development of the sport through promulgation of official rules, sponsoring and sanctioning tournaments and clinics, ranking players, communicating with its members via e-mail and newsletters, training of all levels of players, and otherwise promoting pickleball.

Pickleball is North America's fastest growing sport. Join the USAPA and experience the fun."

 

[snapthis]

And now, something totally different.... Thanks to those of you who donated to Rebecca's Tour de Cure this year. We had the 31 mile ride today and raised over $7000 for research. Even though we don't agree on all this BS, I know many of you have a good heart. Thanks! breeze

$7000!

Kudos to Rebecca for her efforts with the Tour de Cure.

 

[Phoenix]

THE COURT:... If I held a -- a trial based upon what we had before,
starting September 24th, assuming that this merger was going to
go forward, I would decide whether or not there was injury.

The court has two glaring issues...

1) Assumption of Facts: Any order she writes has to begin with "Assuming the merger goes forward (and not only forward but also without anymore negotiations among the parties to the MOU that might alter the MOU, which of course might be necessary in order to overcome any DOJ objections, and knowing such negotiations could increase or decrease USAPA's Duties of Fairness or Unfairness, nevertheless I still ORDER blah, blah, blah.).... And if I guess this right I'm going to Vegas, baby!!

2) A dubious DFR standard: Assumed, speculative, or projected injury is not the case law standard of a DFR.. Actually, to be clear about it, injury in fact, even unequal injury, is not the standard of a DFR. Silver knows this and quoted this in her DJ order.. ."As explained by the Ninth Circuit, “seniority rights are creations of the collective bargaining agreement, and so may be revised or abrogated by later negotiated changes in this agreement.” Hass v. Darigold Dairy Products Co., 751 F.2d 1096, 1099 (9th Cir. 1985). And a union “may renegotiate seniority provisions of a collective bargaining agreement, even though the resulting changes are essentially retroactive or affect different employees unequally.” Id."

Can the court be seriously considering having a trial about DFR by employing a dubious standard of DRF about projected facts that by definition are not yet facts, and may never be? Uncertain facts applied to a dubious standard? Really? 😀

THE COURT: .. Let me now circle back to what I asked, which is after
my order, the only evidence that you would present in terms of
establishing that the defendants engaged in unfair labor
practice is all inextricably interrelated to the merger, so
that if there -- if there were no merger, then you don't have a
case, am I right?
MR. HARPER: I -- I would agree with that.
THE COURT: Okay.