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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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So, then. Nicolau "punished" the east pilots simply because of their hard stance on DOH? Is that really a fact germane to fair and equitable?

He is a vindictive old curmudgeon. Plain and simple. The board in the UAL/CAL SLI said so in not so many words.

You're becoming as delusional as luvthe9.

Nicolau didn't design the award to spite you.

The United award was very close to what United ask for.

Did we ask for anything other than DOH/LOS even after being asked to so by Nicolau?

We got a bad award because we too stupid to ask for something reasonable.

Plain and simple.
 
That was a joke and another mistake by st NIC. Most of those guys will be gone in short order. Should of done a slotting from the top, with east and west and just fenced
the WB's .

1/3 of them were gone between the "snapshot" and the so-called "award." Had Age 60 not been changed, 95% of them would be gone by now.
 
Note: only replying because I saw some of Claxon's posts in recent replies...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlTOfl9F2w

Everyone involved in the UAL CO merger was well aware if it was another Nicolau, ALPA was toast and those arbitrators would be out of work.
Ignore at your own peril hypocrite.
 
I suggest you look up the definition of "hypocrite".

That and a friendly reminder that Odell is not "going" in front of you.....he is already senior to you, and will remain so.

On the list the company denied exists and refuses to publish? Why don't you grieve it? Oh, never mind....
 
Just remember Metroyet. Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you are an ####.

I had no idea you were born again. Jesus loves Claxons too. It's just a little harder for some of us to share his love and foregiveness at times.
 
Damage control and spin by the west will increase soon.

That either came out of a fortune cookie or you've been paying for bad advice.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwOzN31QzhY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZwOzN31QzhY
 
From the Allied Pilots Association

Amended DOJ Complaint

As scheduled and expected, the DOJ filed an amended complaint today to its original complaint filed Aug. 8. The amended complaint includes the Michigan attorney general joining the lawsuit. Bloomberg reports the filing cuts 29 routes from the list of city pairs that will allegedly have illegally high levels of concentration if the merger goes through.
Antitrust Trial Update

U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly at an initial scheduling conference Aug. 30 took firm control of the DOJ's antitrust challenge to the proposed US Airways–American Airlines merger by directing an expedited pre-trial discovery schedule and an early trial date. Rejecting the government's request to delay the start of trial until March, Judge Kollar-Kotelly ordered the trial to begin Nov. 25. In addition, she took a number of steps to support this trial date, including appointing a Special Master to resolve discovery disputes promptly as they may arise, advising the parties to be prepared to support a process of simultaneous depositions and cutting back the scope of a number of the government's discovery requests. The trial date is aggressive for a full trial on the merits of an antitrust case of this magnitude by any reasonable measure.

Judge Kollar-Kotelly entered a more detailed scheduling order Wednesday, providing for the filing of an amended complaint (Sept. 6) and an answer four days later, an early exchange of preliminary witness lists (Sept. 30), a close-of-fact discovery by Oct. 25 and an exchange of expert reports promptly thereafter, with expert discovery closed by Nov. 20. Although Judge Kollar-Kotelly at the Aug. 30 hearing directed the parties each to designate two potential mediators, thus showing her interest in good-faith efforts to resolve the controversy short of trial, Wednesday's order made it plain she did not intend to allow settlement conversation to derail her Thanksgiving trial schedule.
DCA Fly-in Lobby Day and Rally

On Sept. 17 and 18, American Airlines and US Airways employees — including labor, nonrepresented employees and some management — will meet on Capitol Hill for a lobby day and rally in support of the merger. They'll make scheduled visits to their respective House and Senate members to share their views on the merger.
Attendance is limited; sign-up details will be provided soon. Specific flight information and lodging arrangements (at the company's expense) are pending, but those attending can plan to depart the morning of the 17th and return the evening of the 18th. Travel information we have now is air charters will run Sept. 17 from DFW and PHX. (Times have not been determined.) Please stay tuned for more information.
Analyst Updates

Helane Becker, Cowen Securities:

  • We were quite astonished that lawyers at the Department of Justice chose to classify Southwest Airlines as a non-viable competitor to a merged American/US Airways. Indeed, Southwest Airlines, with 13% of the industry's traffic and capacity share, is almost 40% larger than US Airways, with an 8% share.
  • If the merger does not go through, we believe Delta and United will have a clear advantage over American. Corporate accounts prefer the big airlines, and corporate customers like to keep their flying on one airline, ostensibly to get the perks accorded them as a result of frequent flyer status, although those perks are increasingly difficult to come by.
Michael Linenberg, Deutsche Bank:

  • Is the DOJ failing to consider the benefits to corporate consumers by preventing the formation of three major US network carriers?We believe corporate customers, who typically pay significantly higher air fares than leisure customers (primarily because of last-minute purchases) would be better off if they had three major networks competing for their annual air travel budgets rather than two. US Airways is one-third the size of Delta and United and, as such, at a significant competitive disadvantage, in our view, to compete for major corporate contracts. While American is likely to have more success in garnering corporate contracts than US Airways, it is two-thirds the size of Delta and United, and, in our view, losing ground to them in several key domestic and international markets.
  • Presumably, the DOJ is referencing the rise in air fares from the depths of the great recession (up more than 20% since 2009), but in reality, average air fares are up only a few percent per annum going back to 2004 prior to the first major airline merger. (By the way, airline taxes have been on a bit of tear over the same timeframe for those keeping score.) However, consumers have benefited tremendously on the service front: In the first half of 2012, the DOT reported the lowest recorded rate of mishandled bags ever on record. The 83.7% on-time arrival rate represented the best January–June performance in 18 years, and the 1.1% flight-cancellation rate was the best since 1995. Quantifying the benefits/savings from the improved service, in our estimation, exceeds several billion dollars per year.
John Godyn, Morgan Stanley:

  • We asked corporate travel managers to identify the carriers that they deal with. Not surprisingly, there was a positive correlation between the percentage of managers that use a carrier and the size of a carrier's total system, with United and Delta (the largest US airlines) frequently ranked at the top. We also asked corporate travel managers to choose the top legacy carrier in five different categories: Footprint (Quality of Network), Lift (Frequency of Flights/Attractive of Schedule), Quality of Product, Reliability and Price of Package. The surveyed corporate travel managers ranked Delta first in three categories and United in two. This is consistent with our view that consolidation has made the airlines involved more attractive corporate travel partners — a sustainable advantage should LCC's merger not be approved by the DOJ.
Hunter Keay, Wolfe Research:

  • We think the DOJ's complaint fails to appropriately define the relevant markets in which LCC/AMR compete by: (1) ignoring competition from non-network airlines, (2) introducing one-stop connecting city pairs in its concentration analysis but ignoring lower-priced, two-stop connecting options as potential competitors, (3) ignoring the relative size of UAL, LUV and DAL in its Herfindahl work and (4) overemphasizing small markets as a representation of where consumers actually fly.
  • We also think the DOJ relies too heavily on anecdotal and vignette-driven arguments, as was the case in Oracle/PeopleSoft, which the DOJ lost in an embarrassing fashion.
 
Should I gain from you're misfortune? No, of course I shouldn't, but at the same time you shouldn't be getting a windfall either, it's not my fault you got sick.

Well, I do agree with one thing you posted, the merger helped both airlines.

Why would career expectations deal with the combined airline after the merger? It has to do with both carriers PRIOR to the merger. Like I said, you're not making any sense. You're right, everything changed. You can't take a snapshot now, because the companies that we both came from no longer exist as separate entities.

For the record, I wasn't against the merger.

Bean

Let me try this one more time, not that I will find a way of getting it across that I haven't found in the last 8 years.

I don't want a windfall. Nobody should have expected that, but it is what they west would get with the Nic because of the "your were toast argument." I don't want to gain from what happened, I just don't want to be penalized for what DIDN'T happen. That's what Nic did.

He should have taken the failed airline theory off the table, and used our career expectation from what we had in fleet and pilots at the the time of the merger. Run that out until the last pilot on the list retired, see how their careers progress, and slot the lists so that an average pilot hits those gates. For both sides. He didn't do that, and your side has vastly greater career progression at the expense of the east.
 
The east seem to crave all of the benefits of the merger but are unwilling to pay any of the costs. The two posts tie it all together nicely. "I want everything remain as if there never was a merger, except of course for that impending liquidation that was coming absent the merger.

You are wrong. Like I told Bean, we just don't want to be penalized for something that did not happen-Chp7. What if Nicolau said "AWA was a tradtionally weak carrier and headed for Chp 11. As an LCC with low revenue generating capability, I think they were actually in worse shape than US and and going to consider they had no career expectation."? Would you like that? There are plenty of indicators that AWA was headed for chp 11, but there was no way of knowing and the fact is that it didn't happen, just like US didn't enter chp 7. From the day of the merger that was taken off the table, so it shouldn't have been a consideration.

We have paid in this merger. Parker used chp 11 to remove more hulls from our side than yours. Half the 757s gone and low paying E190s added. More bases closed. He kept us on LOA 93 for 2 years before the Nic, and you can't blame that on us.

You guys want a "to the victor go the spoils." Very Christian of you.
 
Damage control and spin by the west will increase soon.
That's the one thing these guys are good at, I guess it helps keep the money flowing, which we hear is running very low opposed to Marty's bill which is getting bigger.
 
You are wrong. Like I told Bean, we just don't want to be penalized for something that did not happen-Chp7. What if Nicolau said "AWA was a tradtionally weak carrier and headed for Chp 11. As an LCC with low revenue generating capability, I think they were actually in worse shape than US and and going to consider they had no career expectation."? Would you like that? There are plenty of indicators that AWA was headed for chp 11, but there was no way of knowing and the fact is that it didn't happen, just like US didn't enter chp 7. From the day of the merger that was taken off the table, so it shouldn't have been a consideration.

We have paid in this merger. Parker used chp 11 to remove more hulls from our side than yours. Half the 757s gone and low paying E190s added. More bases closed. He kept us on LOA 93 for 2 years before the Nic, and you can't blame that on us.

You guys want a "to the victor go the spoils." Very Christian of you.
Well there are lots of "to the victor goes the spoils" examples in the Bible. Did you take note of how much wealth the Israelites gathered from Eqypt as they departed for the land of Canaan? All that gold, silver and bronze used to make the tabernacle came from somewhere. Of course after hundreds of years of being slaves they were certainly owed something. Joshua, David, Solomon and many others prospered with victories over their enemies also or the tribute that was owed to them just for being able to conquer an enemy.

East pilots were not penalized by the NIC. Everyone who had a left seat status at the time of the merger could keep it with the NIC. Everyone who held a right seat status at the time of the merger could retain that status after the NIC too. And everyone who had no seat to hold at the time of the merger could wait for one to open up just as they could if no merger had occurred.

The NIC retained positions people had which seems exceedingly fair in comparison to any proposed DOH system where east pilots instantly gain status at the immediate and harmful expense of the west pilots. Given the power and responsibility to decide how to accomplish an SLI, Nicolau crafted a fair ratio/slotted system that met all of the TA policy criteria. After that came out and the east pilots were no longer facing liquidation of their company as the only other alternative to a merger, they then effectively said we want to take more benefits than the NIC provided even though we gave him the unfettered responsibility to decide the SLI for us. Sounds to me like a desire to gain from the merger without a willingness bare the costs that came with it (TA, binding arbitration, NIC).
 
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