August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Since the merger is dead, that 11% increase over the West is looking mighty fine to me, as long as we make sure and protect section I. Such a proposal will probably make it past the BPR for a vote by the members, it might be the best we can do in a few years. But don't fool yourself. USAPA has no intention of using the NIC, and is still not required by law to do so. In a couple of years, when the legal haze clears, maybe things in the industry will have improved and we can get a 12% increase. But no contract for years. Note that Parker has already shown his love for PHX by moving his family out of the area. Once the "inspectors" are out of the country, that is usually a signal bombs will fly. I see bad times ahead for PIT and PHX. Too bad they jumped on the bandwagon with the DOJ. RR

Here's what the 9th said RR:

[font="Arial""]3 [/font][font="Times New Roman""]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/font]
[font="Times New Roman""] [/font]
[font="Times New Roman""]Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion[/font]

[font="Times New Roman""]Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010[/font]

 

[Pi brat]

Here's what the 9th said RR:

[font=Arial"]3 [/font][font=Times New Roman"]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010[/font]

Um, they are talking about the dissenting opinion there, not the majority, right?

Oh sorry, you have me on ignore, never mind.

 

[Reed Richards]

Here's what the 9th said RR:

[font=Arial"]3 [/font][font=Times New Roman"]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/font]
[font=Times New Roman"][/font]
[font=Times New Roman"]Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010[/font]

Most stupid and inane post of the Holiday weekend. Did you really just post that, thinking anyone would not read the entire content? Really? RR

 

[Phoenix]

Um, they are talking about the dissenting opinion there, not the majority, right?

Oh sorry, you have me on ignore, never mind.

Yeah, I don't understand why he keeps repeating what the majority opinion said... "[font=Times New Roman']The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA."[/font]

It appears CB hasn't figured out that is the majority opinion identifying the fatal assumption that the dissent made.. i.e. implicitly assumed (assumed without explaining a rationale, no legal support)... No legal rationale to assume the Nic is binding on USAPA.

For some reason the West is happy to keep repeating the same implicit assumption as if it were enough.. "Final and Binding" means final and binding... whatever, "Final and Binding" was merely a feel good buzz phrase penned by the former CBA that wasn't able to create the utopia they promised.

The only way the Nic has any life is within the narrow, explicit terms of the TA, and even then the TA is very explicit that it can be modified, as Judge Silver stated so plainly.

Why do they hang $Millions on the same assumption?

 

[dca319]

You are finally catching on......some of you west guys are so thick headed!

Sorry Denver, but even some of your fellow east pilots like me think you're an idiot for giving up so much for the past 10 years.

 

[Claxon]

I beg to differ. The KP is basically the contract that I now work under. It's pretty darned good (most assuredly better than LOA93). The wage offered was 3% above what the AWA pilots make, with a potential of 10-11% above. That PLUS 10 days of vacation MORE a year than you now get.

The NIC stands alone as the only legally binding list that sits on Parker's desk. The train is on its way to DFW, and we are nearly there, so you don't have long to wait Breeze. The Judge(s) all know what USAPA is about and what their goal has always been. Guess what? I think the arbitrators know too.

You have won delay at the loss of hundreds of millions, 210,000 days of vacation days for you guys, and over 14 million spent in litigation. You won't have that long to wait (IMO).

Was 1983 to 1994 much better christian family man?

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/AVG%20WAGE%20-%20Pilots%20and%20Copilots.pdf

 

[Phoenix]

Most stupid and inane post of the Holiday weekend. Did you really just post that, thinking anyone would not read the entire content? Really? RR

Maybe he is in favor of the strategy to implicitly assume the Nic is binding on USAPA.... there is no other way to arrive at it being so.

 

[dca319]

Had to google that one. About par for you westicle.

Nice one Tony. Now you've got a new word to describe your hobby.

 

[Claxon]

West pilots read the update and have a few observations:

"Whah whah whah"​

"Yada, yada, yada"​

.​

"Well, too late you a$$holes.
You guys voted the MOU in, and whether or not you "raise your eyebrow" is completely inconsequential. usucka is as useful as tits on a cockroach......
Loudmouth rhetoric for the masses.
What will will they do, UNVOTE for the MOU??

"​

"Maybe these guys wouldn't be writing these pathetic updates if they had a real union that represented the entire pilot group. How can they believe they are capable of achieving anything when management is well aware of the lack of unity? These guys are effectively neutered and it appears they are clueless based on these kind of updates. I would imagine that they believe that they carry some kind of leverage going into this merger. I would guess management couldn't give a damn what USAPA wants at this point."​

"That they continue to sit for nearly a decade with nothing to show for it, the blame for 99% of their complaints can rest 100% upon their shoulders."

"So, on Labor Day I'd just like to take a moment and say "thanks Onion For noth'in."

You wrote the book on it, how about two decades of america west wages.




http://web.mit.edu/a...nd Copilots.pdf

 

[Pi brat]

Was 1983 to 1994 much better christian family man?

http://web.mit.edu/a...nd Copilots.pdf

He also forgot that what he also currently works under is the TA, which regulates the min fleet and min block. Without it, he might be on reserve in PHX. Oh no, wait, he would be using his Nicolau windfall. Never mind, again.

 

[Claxon]

https://twitter.com/cactusboy53

 

[Reed Richards]

On a different note. I saw one of the most excellent West pilots hired East the other day in ops, said he was being "returned" to PHX. And to be truthful, he said he was fine with that, contrary to his previous words flying with me when it was a rumor. Are all the West furloughed pilots still being recalled (I hope they are) and are all the West pilots marooned East going back? I am asking. RR

 

[snapthis]

On a different note. I saw one of the most excellent West pilots hired East the other day in ops, said he was being "returned" to PHX. And to be truthful, he said he was fine with that, contrary to his previous words flying with me when it was a rumor. Are all the West furloughed pilots still being recalled (I hope they are) and are all the West pilots marooned East going back? I am asking. RR

It's a mixed bag. Some are locked others accepting recall and returning a few bypassed.

 

[mrbreeze]

Sorry Denver, but even some of your fellow east pilots like me think you're an idiot for giving up so much for the past 10 years.

Ah, there's that adolescent attitude that you are so well known for, along with your comment about my Mom calling you back. No matter how hard you try, you just can't hide your stupidity. Like they say, "too bad stupid isn't painful". You are way outta line claiming to be an east pilot. No one believes your BS. Your BS is way too thin. Just drives you nuts that I am able to manage financially so that you don't get your lottery ticket, eh, Move?

 

[mrbreeze]

I beg to differ. The KP is basically the contract that I now work under. It's pretty darned good (most assuredly better than LOA93). The wage offered was 3% above what the AWA pilots make, with a potential of 10-11% above. That PLUS 10 days of vacation MORE a year than you now get.

The NIC stands alone as the only legally binding list that sits on Parker's desk. The train is on its way to DFW, and we are nearly there, so you don't have long to wait Breeze. The Judge(s) all know what USAPA is about and what their goal has always been. Guess what? I think the arbitrators know too.

You have won delay at the loss of hundreds of millions, 210,000 days of vacation days for you guys, and over 14 million spent in litigation. You won't have that long to wait (IMO).

Scott Kirby, "NO"