Meant cactusboy53, cut and paste error. I will publish a correction in the next post.
August 2013 Pilot Discussion
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traderjake
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Tell us again, when will Kasher pay?
Please replace cactusboy53 when you see flyer63 in theprevious two pages of posts. I believe flyer 63 is still a suspect in the Lindberg kidnapping, but I will correct this in future posts after more study sessions with the editors.
nic4none. As far as equipment pay at america worst; What is the pay difference between america worst airbus captain and f/o, vs america worst 757 pay for captain and f/o?
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Feel free to ask bret butler this question.
Well let me help you. america worst captains and f/o's get paid the same regardless of equipment.
Jay Heppner, knew what was going to happen when he posted this message a few days ago.
Jay? alpa shill. What airline has the most scabs on their list? Let me help you jay, your alpa airline.
"My Fellow Pilots,
I’m Captain Jay Heppner.
The long and arduous process of reaching an Integrated Seniority List will finally be completed in the next few days when the combined list is released by the arbitration panel. The winding path to this milestone event has been more than 10 years in the making. Events that have occurred since our merger with Continental was announced more than three years ago have stirred heated and intense emotions on both sides. Mergers are always messy, and the United/Continental marriage has been no different from others we have seen within our industry.
Challenges to our pilot group, our airline and the airline industry over the past 10 years have created unrelenting stress on our United pilots and their families. We should be proud knowing that each of us has met these challenges head on, while performing our duties with professionalism, dignity and honor. We have managed to keep these distractions out of the cockpit and successfully completed the work of safely transporting our passengers and fellow crewmembers. I want to thank you now for your vigilance and professionalism throughout the past decade. Soon, this difficult period will be behind us and we can look forward to the future with renewed vigor and optimism. This truly is the bookend to the bankruptcy era.
Regardless of the outcome of the Seniority List Integration process, I feel that the Merger Committees of both the United and Continental MECs have served their constituent pilot groups faithfully and with extraordinary diligence. The Arbitration Panel will soon produce a list that it believes to be fair and equitable to the entire pilot group in accordance with the ALPA Merger Policy.
Many will look at the release of this list as the completion of the merger process and as an opportunity to sit back and reap the benefits of our new collective bargaining agreement and, potentially, new equipment and seat movements. But I submit that this combined list does not represent the completion of our work. It merely marks the beginning.
Once the MECs merge into a single entity, we will have the combined resources and influence to meet the challenges that face not only the United pilot group, but the entire piloting profession. After ISL, the combined United pilots will comprise nearly 25 percent of ALPA. A nearly 25 percent interest in any organization, whether it be political or corporate, is a force to be reckoned with. In the public sector, a nearly 25 percent interest in a corporation exercises de-facto control of that corporation through control of the Board of Directors. The political arena of ALPA is no different. In order to effectively exercise that influence, however, we must be unified.
The challenges we will face in the coming months and years will be many. We will have to defend our existing contract while simultaneously commencing preparations for the next. We will also have to continue defending our profession from the growing pressures of cabotage and the relaxation of the foreign ownership limits. There will be other challenges that have yet to materialize. Make no mistake, forces within our management, and even within our own union, will seek every available opportunity to exploit divisions and emotions created by the ISL to advance their particular agenda. We must not let this happen.
Labor Day is the creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of the American workers. The only way to face these challenges and prevail is through a single unified voice, a voice that will advance not only the interests of all United pilots, but the interests of all professional airline pilots and all of organized labor. That single unified voice can only be achieved if we stop living in the past and, instead, look forward to a future of solidarity and shared prosperity.
One Union, One Voice, One Future
Thank you for watching."
ual alpa update August 28th. One big happy family at alpa.
"Federal Court in D.C. Rejects Effort to Block Issuance of ISL
"Federal Court in D.C. Rejects Effort to Block Issuance of ISL
Today, lawyers for ALPA and United Airlines appeared before Judge Richard Leon in federal district court in Washington, D.C. in the case of Gullaksen v. United and ALPA, to defend against a motion by the three Plaintiffs seeking a temporary restraining order – an injunction -- to block the SLI arbitration panel from issuing the integrated seniority list. Plaintiffs (three United pilots) argued that the court should stop the arbitrators from issuing a decision because they might take System Bid 14-02 into account in creating the ISL, and, according to plaintiffs, Bid 14-02 violated the UPA. The court, ruling from the bench, denied plaintiffs’ request for an injunction and also their request to expedite their lawsuit. The court said that any concern about the effect of the bid was speculative, that plaintiffs hadn’t shown that they were likely to win their claims that the bid violates the contract or that ALPA had done anything wrong; that the United and Continental pilots, as well as United Airlines, would experience greater harm if the ISL were delayed than the plaintiffs would suffer if the award is issued; and that an injunction would not serve the public interest. In this regard, Judge Leon accepted ALPA’s points that a delay in the SLI award will cost all United pilots money and will deprive both the pilots and United Airlines of the benefits of a fully integrated operation.
The UAL MEC has been very forthright concerning the implementation schedule of certain provisions of the new United Pilot Agreement (UPA). One of those is Section 8 and the ability to bid on each other’s equipment. Detailed communications have explained the CAL System bid 14-02 from last January. A pilot began a grievance against System Bid 14-02; and throughout the process, he was continually advised that there was no legal basis for his argument - that System Bid 14-02 should have been available to all pilots. One of the many facts is Letter of Agreement 26, item 102, stating “At SLI the JIT will develop a process to provide for combined bidding of vacancies.” Separation of operations is required until the ISL is complete – CAL pilots fly CAL airplanes, UAL pilots fly UAL airplanes. The recent MOU for a SFO 737 base was due to the delivery of 737s to the UAL side, not a proration of all available flying.
The Grievance Review Panel summed up the Gullaksen grievance well when it stated, “We wish that we could find room in the contractual language and arguments presented to us to find in his favor – but we cannot.” Despite all these, this grievance became a bully pulpit for those with anti-ALPA agendas. To them, the facts are irrelevant. The court documents from both sides may be viewed by Clicking Here. Accusations in the court filings for a TRO were preposterous and inflammatory. Specifically, ALPA does not make “side oral agreements” as was alleged several times nor has ALPA supported United’s position relative to Vacancy Bid 14-02 “for its own political purposes.”
The court also noted that he expects ALPA and the Company to file motions to dismiss the case by October 7, and he would address any questions about the processing of the case after deciding those motions. We will continue to keep you informed."
Beancounter
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I don't disagree, longevity should matter.
Just two questions though:
1) Did it go DOH?
2) Was either carrier so deep into bankruptcy it was days from liquidation?
Bean
Of equally "logical" concern wherever "career expectations" are involved is: Did the aribitrators factor in NASA data concerning the likelihood of significant meteor/space-junk strikes on even just any company headquarters buildings, much less individual pilots, which also could well have happened, but didn't...? It's as well appalling that stats for area traffic accidents, CDC thoughts on potential disease outbreaks, WX concerns for tornadoes, tsunamis, earthquakes and any potential effects of global warming were entirely neglected! Additionally: I've seen no mention anywhere of the fairly recent and serious concerns for honeybee populations. One would imagine that any all-knowing, prescient arbitrator would naturally factor all things into the equation. 😉
"longevity should matter"?....Umm..."sure" it should...but just so long as the nic stands anyway, within which it counted for nothing at all? 🙂
Bottom line: Once anyone strays off the proper path of fully respecting the worked years of other people within the same class and craft....well...that's a sure-fire recipe for mistrust, opportunism, greed, hostility, chaos and the wholesale destruction of ANY semblance of even cooperative, much less unionist principles, as we've seen so clearly demonstrated "here". Core human nature doesn't change due to any societal fad(s). The very instant any person, behavior or philosophy is judged only by "relative" notions, versus actual merit; it's everyone for themselves and ONLY themselves. All others be damned. Kinda' tough to afterwards venture out and get the clan any fresh mammoth meat. 😉
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Where is the word "we" in that agreement?
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Proof of liquidation please.
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DING, DING, DING, DING.....WE HAVE A WINNER!
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