August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

Yeah, you were the one not holding an elected position on the MEC, but would have thrown our furloughed guys under the bus, I would say "you first." What a jackwagan. You are a dues deadbeat who has all the answers about what "should" have been done. What should have been done was an emotionless and professional job by the old man, instead of his vindictive, burning bag of s...t thrown on our doorstep. He did NONE of us any favors. He failed professionally, so much so he will be written about for years.

What a dimwit, enjoy LOA 93, you deserve it.

I gonna give you a clue here, the award was not based on vindictiveness.

 

[Pi brat]

CG,

Why should a west pilot get much great advancement opportunities with this merger than he expected without? And since we are smaller than the two airlines were in 2005, who pays for that?

Did west pilots have a say in the merger? Did they help pay for it? What is it that gives them more value?

 

[Reed Richards]

Seham? No he ran away with around 10 Million, and is now espousing the EXACT OPPOSITE legal argument. That's right it's Szmanski now.

CB

Once again, not true. Seham said the same thing to both groups, as did Judge Silver to us more recently......of course the parties are bound by agreements made by previous bargaining agents. What you are missing is both also said (and the Ninth confirmed in its dicta) is that the parties were free to amend such agreements, specifically LOA 96. We attempted to do just that with the failed MOU and the now failed merger (the failed merger for which you are suing us over) I hear a rumor the Company just told you the same thing, but I cannot prove it (don't worry cupcake, the letters will come out in the courtroom, if they exist.) In a couple of years, after you finally understand the truth, we will amend the T/A once again, and vote in a DOH list with fences and restrictions. And by the way, no need to made the ridiculous argument the NIC is a part of our contract. That is a minor dispute, no longer disputed. RR

 

[Phoenix]

Better to look like a puppet, than a complete douchebag. Hang in there Scooter, this will be completed soon enough.

DANGEROUS GROUND

(From the Urban Dictionary:
1. douchebag

Someone who has surpassed the levels of jerk and ####, however not yet reached f****r or motherf*****r. Not to be confuzed with douche.)

Just keep in mind your ever increasingly corrosive posts all started because you couldn't just simply laugh at a clever parody of your posts... i.e. the ones that dramatically announce to everyone that you are ignoring someone. Oxymoroon.

 

[traderjake]

There are far worse things than remaining a F/O for an additional year or two because you merged with an airline that kept you out of Chp 11 and over the course of your career will over you much more opportunity.

And there are far worse things than having to to share attrition with the airline that probably kept us out of Chp 7.

 

[Pi brat]

And there are far worse things than having to to share attrition with the airline that probably kept us out of Chp 7.

I don't mind sharing, it's the division that I have a problem with. Like I asked CG, what did the west pilot do that make them deserve much more than they were in line for? Most of them didn't want this merger.

Here's a crazy idea-slot so that as many guys as possible can move up the list as they would have unmerged.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I have it from a good authority....um Odell himself.....that Dave wishes to accept the offered recall to the West at the first opportunity, but his 18 month seat lock does not expire til early 2014.

Seat lock does not prevent a base change and Dave can't hold the 757 in PHX last time I looked.

He's free to move any time or are you just telling 65% of the story?

 

[CallawayGolf]

CG,

Why should a west pilot get much great advancement opportunities with this merger than he expected without? And since we are smaller than the two airlines were in 2005, who pays for that?

Did west pilots have a say in the merger? Did they help pay for it? What is it that gives them more value?

The west pilots weren't given more value than the east. They were slotted according to seniority with the slight edge going to the east in that regard because of the top 517. West pilots had no say in the merger or in what the arbitration panel awarded. What they could do, which is the same the east could do, is to honor the results of a binding arbitration award as much as it depends on them to do so. If the NIC had stapled the west and that stapling was did not violate the TA/merger policy then my opinion of what both sides should do would be the same - honor the agreement and live with the results or turn in your resignation if you prefer.

 

[Pi brat]

The west pilots weren't given more value than the east. They were slotted according to seniority with the slight edge going to the east in that regard because of the top 517. West pilots had no say in the merger or in what the arbitration panel awarded. What they could do, which is the same the east could do, is to honor the results of a binding arbitration award as much as it depends on them to do so. If the NIC had stapled the west and that stapling was did not violate the TA/merger policy then my opinion of what both sides should do would be the same - honor the agreement and live with the results or turn in your resignation if you prefer.

Or abide by the TA and negotiate something different, or keep separate ops-what we've done.

Honor the TA and stop whining about it.

 

[Pi brat]

You guys like to talk about honoring your agreements, but fail to remember that the TA came first. Then you ratify an new agreement that does away with the old, and file a lawsuit claiming it is illegal-when one of your own helped write it and you guy ratified it by 97%. Integrity!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Or abide by the TA and negotiate something different, or keep separate ops-what we've done.

Honor the TA and stop whining about it.

I'm not whining just stating fact and well-reasoned opinion. And it's not the west you need to convince to abandon the NIC in order to negotiate; that would be Management, the NMB, and or a federal court. So far the response to USAPA on that front has been an emphatic NO or at best an anemic, you might be able to avoid a DFR if a LUP can be identified or if the west decides not to file another suit once the CBA is ratified. The only accomplishment USAPA can claim is to have the whole pilot group placed under a permanent injunction.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You guys like to talk about honoring your agreements, but fail to remember that the TA came first. Then you ratify an new agreement that does away with the old, and file a lawsuit claiming it is illegal-when one of your own helped write it and you guy ratified it by 97%. Integrity!

Did the same MOU ratified by the APA pilots give them carte blanc to reorder their seniority list any way they wanted because their previous agreement did a way with the old too?

 

[Metroyet]

Here's a crazy idea-slot so that as many guys as possible can move up the list as they would have unmerged.

Here's another crazy idea, perhaps your leaders should have thought of that before they talked to Nic!!?

 

[Reed Richards]

Did the same MOU ratified by the APA pilots give them carte blanc to reorder their seniority list any way they wanted because their previous agreement did a way with the old too?

You guys crack me up. All the fake gravitas and logic in the world, but you require everyone to accept a false premise at the beginning of each proof. Management just told you, USAPA has been telling you for years. There is no combined list on our property, of any kind. Not legally, not contractually, not published, not used in a bid. A combined list at US Airways does not exist. And the majority of pilots here are not going to allow the West Class to create one out of thin air. There has been no process in the past, no process pending, nor any process conceived that would would reorder the West list, the East list , or the APA list. RR

 

[Pi brat]

Here's another crazy idea, perhaps your leaders should have thought of that before they talked to Nic!!?

Like when the west proposed stapling 900 ACTIVE pilots?

Why do you care?