August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[mrbreeze]

I thought that grievance about publishing the nic list was the stupidest thing I'd heard of, I didn't even log onto that site, much less do anything else to help further it. I already knew what the answer would be. That said, BFD. The east isn't exactly making much headway with the DOH list either. We're all still being played the fool. Bottom line in my opinion, none of us know exactly where we stand. And if there is no merger, the legal system isn't going to help us find out any time soon either.

On the money, pal.

 

[Pi brat]

Seriously? That's all it takes? You mean you see no humor in any of the videos, none whatsoever? I'll agree with you parts of them are sad, parts of them are over the top, parts of them are immature, and parts of them are witty and humorous. I'm willing to look objectively at the content and evalute it based on what I see, not what I personally think about one pilot group or the USAPA leaders, past or present.

What I don't get is why the east are so bothered by them. Did you watch them thinking you would find something of value in them or that they would support your views? Furthermore, why keep posting them over and over and over again if they bother the posters so much? My guess is that the nuggets of truth they contain (parts not all by any means) really get under the east pilots skin because of an extreme level of sensitivity.

I try to enjoy life as much as it depends on my own attitude. If someone makes fun of me I'll laugh with them rather than be offended ( which is not possible with me as I've told you before). If someone tries to be funny but fails, I just ignore them and go on about my day. Who was it who said, "I might not agree with anything you have to say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it"? That's pretty much my opinion on most any topic or subject.

NONE. They are like the Jerry Springer show and I don't like the company and union name in them, or our uniforms. And I don't re-post them.

 

[Reed Richards]

Seriously? That's all it takes? You mean you see no humor in any of the videos, none whatsoever? I'll agree with you parts of them are sad, parts of them are over the top, parts of them are immature, and parts of them are witty and humorous. I'm willing to look objectively at the content and evalute it based on what I see, not what I personally think about one pilot group or the USAPA leaders, past or present.

What I don't get is why the east are so bothered by them. Did you watch them thinking you would find something of value in them or that they would support your views? Furthermore, why keep posting them over and over and over again if they bother the posters so much? My guess is that the nuggets of truth they contain (parts not all by any means) really get under the east pilots skin because of an extreme level of sensitivity.

I try to enjoy life as much as it depends on my own attitude. If someone makes fun of me I'll laugh with them rather than be offended ( which is not possible with me as I've told you before). If someone tries to be funny but fails, I just ignore them and go on about my day. Who was it who said, "I might not agree with anything you have to say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it"? That's pretty much my opinion on most any topic or subject.

Some of the videos are well made, and at times very humorous and clever, no matter what side you are on. But in the end, my assessment (and further action going forward with the Company) is when a line is crossed. My teenage daughters have access to these videos. Other than the "Hitler finds out this or that" video, which I think has entered the mainstream as acceptable, I take great offence at references to USAPA members as Nazis. I want them pulled now from utube, if that is even possible. We well soon find out either way. Nuff said. RR

 

[traderjake]

Heard that today at the BPR meeting, Mr. Flight Pay Loss himself, lame duck CLT rep DeWitt Ingram, is trying to give Cleary a 38K payday for “lost vacation.”

I wonder what my pal Claxon thinks should be done.

 

[Reed Richards]

Not exactly. That was my way of saying you're making way to much of this.

Not your call. And again, your deflection of this issue is telling. Are you guys "happy" with the two individuals that started this? At least they don’t sit on any important committee (s!) RR

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Not your call. And again, your deflection of this issue is telling. Are you guys "happy" with the two individuals that started this? At least they don't sit on any important committee (s!) RR

I think it was dumb, but I don't think it makes any difference one way or another. As Archie Bunker would say, it's irrevelant. And as Sheriff Buford T. Justice would say, the Goddam Germans got nothin to do with it.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Some of the videos are well made, and at times very humorous and clever, no matter what side you are on. But in the end, my assessment (and further action going forward with the Company) is when a line is crossed. My teenage daughters have access to these videos. Other than the "Hitler finds out this or that" video, which I think has entered the mainstream as acceptable, I take great offence at references to USAPA members as Nazis. I want them pulled now from utube, if that is even possible. We well soon find out either way. Nuff said. RR

Well some people might take offense if you say parts of them are funny, but there might be a double standard. We'll see I guess.

Censorship is a slippery slope of thought control leading to despotism and many other anti-freedom policies. I can't watch an NFL game without considering if my children should leave the room when commercials come on. Still, I prefer the choice of being able to watch or not watch, buy products or refuse to support companies with my dollars for going places with their content or views I don't agree with. I can and have purchased content filtering software for my computers so my children can't get to websites that may be harmful to their emotional and mental development. That's censorship at the personal level which I have the freedom to engage in, but they will have to make their own decisions when the reach the age of emancipation.

 

[Reed Richards]

Well some people might take offense if you say parts of them are funny, but there might be a double standard. We'll see I guess.

Censorship is a slippery slope of thought control leading to despotism and many other anti-freedom policies. I can't watch an NFL game without considering if my children should leave the room when commercials come on. Still, I prefer the choice of being able to watch or not watch, buy products or refuse to support companies with my dollars for going places with their content or views I don't agree with. I can and have purchased content filtering software for my computers so my children can't get to websites that may be harmful to their emotional and mental development. That's censorship at the personal level which I have the freedom to engage in, but they will have to make their own decisions when the reach the age of emancipation.

This is not about censorship, this is not about First Amendment rights, nor offensive commercials. And what I am about to say is not directed at you personally. There is an Employee Manual at US Airways, as well as declaration that the Company enforces a 2103 Non Harassment nondiscrimination policy. There are punks out West that are about to find out they DO NOT have free reign to do as they please being funny and cute. If you think comparing USAPA pilots to Nazis who murdered millions of Jews is acceptable humor, I have some swampland in FLA to sell you. Once again, I direct you all to legal zoom search Held vs. APA. This is big boy stuff, now in fact out of my hands. RR

 

[Piedmont1984]

Heard that today at the BPR meeting, Mr. Flight Pay Loss himself, lame duck CLT rep DeWitt Ingram, is trying to give Cleary a 38K payday for “lost vacation.” Katy bar the door if it happens, every Officer and Committee member on AFB (full union pay, LOA 95) in the last 5 years will be coming forward with a similar claim. My guess as to the first three with similar claims would be, in order, Parrella, Mowrey, and DiOrio. RR

Since you weren't there and are only partly informed, here is the rest of the story. If Cleary sues the union, the cost to defend will likely exceed the cost to settle. The attorneys felt settling would not be precedent setting. There were emails between Cleary and Streble which were read at the meeting and could be interpreted either way, i.e. the union (Streble) gave him the impression it would take care of his request for vacation pay or conversely, the promise only extended to the previous year. In either case it was pointed out that the S/T did not have the authority to make such a commitment on behalf of the union. The other point made was that Cleary was in fact paid his full monthly salary the entire time, by the company. Consequently, his demand for back vacation pay could be interpreted as double dipping. In any case, I don't think he is entitled, but it may be prudent to reach a settlement, since it would cost Cleary to pursue a lawsuit as well.
'84

 

[Reed Richards]

Since you weren't there and are only partly informed, here is the rest of the story. If Cleary sues the union, the cost to defend will likely exceed the cost to settle. The attorneys felt settling would not be precedent setting. There were emails between Cleary and Streble which were read at the meeting and could be interpreted either way, i.e. the union (Streble) gave him the impression it would take care of his request for vacation pay or conversely, the promise only extended to the previous year. In either case it was pointed out that the S/T did not have the authority to make such a commitment on behalf of the union. The other point made was that Cleary was in fact paid his full monthly salary the entire time, by the company. Consequently, his demand for back vacation pay could be interpreted as double dipping. In any case, I don't think he is entitled, but it may be prudent to reach a settlement, since it would cost Cleary to pursue a lawsuit as well.
'84

Streble was not at the meeting. He will have his say. And you don't speak for him. That you would suggest to settle this to save moneys is classic Cleary logic. Read your post again, especially the last sentence, you are worried about Cleary having to pay? Really? Fully "informed." RR

 

[traderjake]

Consequently, his demand for back vacation pay could be interpreted as double dipping. In any case, I don't think he is entitled, but it may be prudent to reach a settlement, since it would cost Cleary to pursue a lawsuit as well.
'84

Wouldn't it be cheaper to change the name of the union to the one you suggested?

 

[CallawayGolf]

This is not about censorship, this is not about First Amendment rights, nor offensive commercials. And what I am about to say is not directed at you personally. There is an Employee Manual at US Airways, as well as declaration that the Company enforces a 2103 Non Harassment nondiscrimination policy. There are punks out West that are about to find out they DO NOT have free reign to do as they please being funny and cute. If you think comparing USAPA pilots to Nazis who murdered millions of Jews is acceptable humor, I have some swampland in FLA to sell you. Once again, I direct you all to legal zoom search Held vs. APA. This is big boy stuff, now in fact out of my hands. RR

Agree wholeheartedly with you on all those points. If company policy was violated then that's between Management and the individuals involved.

Now I would have to go back and watch the Nazis video to see if that's what was said or implied. My admittedly distant recollection is that there was a parody of radical fanaticism and intolerance for viewpoints that differ from the rabid leadership of USAPA. If that's where it stopped then I think you may be overstating that anyone was "comparing" USAPA or east to the despicable and murderous acts committed by Hitler, the SS, the SS, the Nazis or whatever. As I mentioned to PI, I am never offended by anything a person does or says because I have to choose to be offended and that is something I refuse to do or be. So a lot of things other people choose to be offended by don't affect me in the least. Actions, not words, are what do harm to people. Being offended is a personal choice.

 

[Reed Richards]

Reed Richard's important announcement: I will no longer reply to anything Piedmont1984 has to say here. He seems to be an intellectual poser. I look back at my exchanges and about half the time he is pontificating having either not bothered to be informed, or telling others they are not informed. What I am doing is known in the industry as "load shedding." I am tired of wasting time with someone so poorly "read" and so poorly tuned to anything relating to union politics, much less current events. RR

 

[Piedmont1984]

Simply reporting what you omitted. No conflict in my logic. And how about you do likewise and don't speak for Cleary and the other three you mentioned.

Better informed.

'84

 

[Piedmont1984]

Reed Richard's important announcement: I will no longer reply to anything Piedmont1984 has to say here. He seems to be an intellectual poser. I look back at my exchanges and about half the time he is pontificating having either not bothered to be informed, or telling others they are not informed. What I am doing is known in the industry as "load shedding." I am tired of wasting time with someone so poorly "read" and so poorly tuned to anything relating to union politics, much less current events. RR

AMF