Beware of Partnership Flying!

[AAStew]

In case they offer another partnership proffer now in May, be careful. It has cost me thousands of dollars! I have never been in hightime flyer, but since I had taken a lot of time off in 20907 this past year I worked an average of about 55-60 hours per month and caught up to my 420 in June of 2008.
In partnership they subtract 35 hours from your 420 threshold every month, but what they have omitted is that they do not add ANY of the hours you have flown this month and subtract the hours from last year! I understand subtracting 35 hours from your total, but this is so wrong. So this month I was 3 hours short of my threshold and now owe the company $1200 for Cobra. This will be almost covered by the hours I flew! The union claims it is implied... Personally I think it is BS, but the one who really end up losing are the future furloughees. I refuse to work for this company for free! Were any of the flight attendants on here aware that this was implied? They really are in bed together aren't they?

 

[jimntx]

I'm the first to say that I don't even understand the subtracting from last year business. I thought the 420 threshhold was a rolling 12-month lookback. If you flew 70 hours or more 12 months ago, how does flying only 35 this month cause you to drop below the threshhold?????

If the APFA doesn't have any better anwer than "it is implied" then, yes, they are in bed with the company. To paraphrase what a dear friend here in Dallas says when she is supposed to be shocked by the obvious..."The APFA is in bed with the company? Consider the pearls clutched."

 

[AAStew]

The way it works under normal circumstances: you are requires to have 420 hours in the past 12 months, an average of 35 per month. If you are on partnership they deduct 35 hours from that 420 per month in partnership since you are only flying a half schedule. If you were on normal schedule they would subtract last Marchs hours, let's say 70 and add this March's hours let's say 35. Instead they are subtracting last March's hours but not adding this Marchs hours. The union specifically told me "Sorry, it will be impossible for you to maintain threshold, you should of known, it was implied." Oh well you live and learn, unfortunately, I don't have a lawyer who can read the fine print for me....or oh wait, that is supposed to be the APFA's job.

ACC ACC LOOK ELIG¶

PPROJ GUAR CHASE DIV SK/VC HRS PVD BACK12 HOURS¶

JAN 114.14 70.00 D Y Y 3.00 293.47* 420.00¶

FEB 61.00 60.57 D Y Y 3.00 351.02* 420.00¶

MAR 44.46 44.46 D Y Y 3.00 372.44* 420.00¶

APR 57.19 54.12 I Y Y 3.00 396.41* 420.00¶

 

[skyhoosier]

I think you are all wrong about Partnership flying and eligibility for paid insurance. Maybe I should say I HOPE you/APFA/AA are all wrong because I, too, am on Partnership Flying. That is not what is happening to me. I asked all the questions before requesting Partnership and there was no room for any 'implied' answer that fit what they are doing to you! It won't be the first time payroll has misinterpreted a situation and decided to charge us for it. They tried to charge me for Cobra when a partial Bid Leave from one month ran consecutive to a partial BL in the next, even tho I was active for more than 15 days/35 hours in each month, but their mistake was discovered and stopped. (As were my pass privileges temporarily) I have to think it is a result of outsourcing or high turnover in these departments.

In my case right now, they subtract 35 hours from the 420 eligibility threshold each month that I am on Partnership. They do not add any of hours that I fly during the Parner months, but it is a wash, I am neither gaining or losing in the comparison to the lookback for those months. It is still a rolling 12 months, just the eligibility threshhold is calculated at 35 hours only for the months not on Partnership. Hence, in my case, my threshhold goes down each month on P, as do the hours I worked that are compared to it, as the number of months with countable hours go to 11, to 10 etc as each month of P is substituted into the calculation.

I don't know if my description is clear or not, maybe showing my Decs example:

ACC ACC .......................................................LOOK.......ELIG
.......PPROJ GUAR...DIV..SK/VC..HRS................BACK12 .. HOURS
JAN...53.21...75.00......D.....Y Y...0.00.................482.57.. 420.00
FEB...36.10...38.56......D.....Y Y...0.00.................485.47 .. 420.00
MAR....0.00....0.00......D.....P P...0.00.................450.44.. 385.00
APR
MAY
JUN
JUL
AUG
SEP
OCT
NOV
DEC

SUMMARY AS OF 23APR09
S I C K V A C A T I O N
TTL FT PAID HOURS - 113.56 .....TTL FT PAID HOURS - 113.56
ELIGIBILITY HOURS - 70.00 .....ELIGIBILITY HOURS - 70.00Â¥

Unfortunately it only shows this year's accrual, but you can see where the # of hours required in Eligibility went from 420 to 385 the first month on Partnership. March 2008 I had a Bid Leave and my guarantee was only 35:03 hours. Since the rolling 12 will no longer include March, my Look back also went down 35 hours.

Does your example mirror mine except that they are charging you, or were your circumstances different? As you can see in our comparisons, my Eligibility hours went down, lowering the bar of what my look back is compared to. In your, your required rolling 12 eligibility remains at 420; they aren't adjusting it for P flying.

 

[nbmcg01]

There should be a prorated number. I know many of the recalls had messed up accounts until benefits got the numbers sorted out. I certainly hope there is a mistake.

 

[ordcommuter]

I don't understand your problem. The HISK you show is from 2008 not 2009 and even that shows you were below the threshold for Jan 08 to Apr 08. You have to also realize as skyhoosier says, they reduce your threshold for Mar 09 by 35 hours, so the whole thing IS a wash. You would have probably be in the same situation even if you weren't on partnership flying. Don't blame the APFA. Take some responsiblity yourself for not flying enough hours.

 

[AAStew]

I don't understand your problem. The HISK you show is from 2008 not 2009 and even that shows you were below the threshold for Jan 08 to Apr 08. You have to also realize as skyhoosier says, they reduce your threshold for Mar 09 by 35 hours, so the whole thing IS a wash. You would have probably be in the same situation even if you weren't on partnership flying. Don't blame the APFA. Take some responsiblity yourself for not flying enough hours.

You are kind of nasty...
I failed to realize as it was implied that no hours would be added to my threshold. I needed to raise
my 420 lookback. I had taken some time off in 2007. So therefore I flew higher time to catch up in 2008. I paid my Cobra as I should have, no complaints from me. What I failed to realize because it was implied, is that NO HOURS from my partnership flying month would be added to my lookback. So even though they are reducing my threshold by 35 hours every month, my lookback is being reduced by 60-100 hours because that is what I worked last year. Even if I work 100 hours this month by OE'ing trips onto my schedule nothing will be added to my lookback, making it impossible for me to catch up regardless. This was implied, and to say that we should have know, not even the reps at the APFA knew this when I called.
ANd no I would not be in the same situation if I was not in partnership flying, because all you do is subtract last years hours and make sure you fly at least that much to maintain your lookback.
Don't forget to take your nice pills today.

 

[AAStew]

There should be a prorated number. I know many of the recalls had messed up accounts until benefits got the numbers sorted out. I certainly hope there is a mistake.

The fair thing to have done would be to subtract 35 hours from what you have flown since that is what your threshold is being reduced by. That way if I am losing 58 hours from last April and I flew 60 hours this April, they would only credit me with 25. But I said fair and that means equitable which are antonyms to AMR.

 

[AAStew]

With your schedule if you flew 80 hours last April it will take you down to 370 lookback still within the new threshold of 350 you will receive for April. If you flew 80 hours in May it will bring you down to 290, below the 315 threshold in May and you will owe the company benefits pay. If you did not fly substantially higher you may be okay, you just have to watch it as you are kind of close also. This was "implied" as Mr Durkin states and we should have known this, even though their own reps had not a clue.

I don't know if my description is clear or not, maybe showing my Decs example:

ACC ACC .......................................................LOOK.......ELIG
.......PPROJ GUAR...DIV..SK/VC..HRS................BACK12 .. HOURS
JAN...53.21...75.00......D.....Y Y...0.00.................482.57.. 420.00
FEB...36.10...38.56......D.....Y Y...0.00.................485.47 .. 420.00
MAR....0.00....0.00......D.....P P...0.00.................450.44.. 385.00
APR
MAY
JUN
JUL
AUG
SEP
OCT
NOV
DEC

SUMMARY AS OF 23APR09
S I C K V A C A T I O N
TTL FT PAID HOURS - 113.56 .....TTL FT PAID HOURS - 113.56
ELIGIBILITY HOURS - 70.00 .....ELIGIBILITY HOURS - 70.00Â¥

Unfortunately it only shows this year's accrual, but you can see where the # of hours required in Eligibility went from 420 to 385 the first month on Partnership. March 2008 I had a Bid Leave and my guarantee was only 35:03 hours. Since the rolling 12 will no longer include March, my Look back also went down 35 hours.

Does your example mirror mine except that they are charging you, or were your circumstances different? As you can see in our comparisons, my Eligibility hours went down, lowering the bar of what my look back is compared to. In your, your required rolling 12 eligibility remains at 420; they aren't adjusting it for P flying.

 

[eolesen]

The fair thing to have done would be to subtract 35 hours from what you have flown since that is what your threshold is being reduced by. That way if I am losing 58 hours from last April and I flew 60 hours this April, they would only credit me with 25. But I said fair and that means equitable which are antonyms to AMR.

This is part of your contract, right?

If so, fair or equitable don't apply as long as it's done to the letter of what's in the contract.

 

[ordcommuter]

You are kind of nasty...
I failed to realize as it was implied that no hours would be added to my threshold. I needed to raise
my 420 lookback. I had taken some time off in 2007. So therefore I flew higher time to catch up in 2008. I paid my Cobra as I should have, no complaints from me. What I failed to realize because it was implied, is that NO HOURS from my partnership flying month would be added to my lookback. So even though they are reducing my threshold by 35 hours every month, my lookback is being reduced by 60-100 hours because that is what I worked last year. Even if I work 100 hours this month by OE'ing trips onto my schedule nothing will be added to my lookback, making it impossible for me to catch up regardless. This was implied, and to say that we should have know, not even the reps at the APFA knew this when I called.
ANd no I would not be in the same situation if I was not in partnership flying, because all you do is subtract last years hours and make sure you fly at least that much to maintain your lookback.
Don't forget to take your nice pills today.

Why is it when someone tell someone to take some responsibilty they are labels to be nasty?
I'm not nasty. I just don't understand your problem. You state you worked 60-100 hours a month last year. Therefore your look back in Jan09 should have been at least 720 (60 x 12). Therefore this is what your HISK should look like with the 60 hours per month if you truly worked at least 60 per month last year.

Month Lookback Eligible Hours
Jan 720 420
Feb 720 420
Mar 660 385
Apr 600 350
May 540 315
Jun 480 280
Jul 420 245
Aug 360 210
Sep 300 175
Oct 240 140
Nov 180 105
Dec 120 70

My feeling is if you were below your threshold for certain months the year prior, you will be below the threshold again during those month. I just don't want you to give a bad rap to Partnership flying because it DID save some jobs and hopefully will save more, if and when we have another round of furloughs.

 

[AAStew]

This is part of your contract, right?

If so, fair or equitable don't apply as long as it's done to the letter of what's in the contract.

No it isn't covered in the contract. It is something new they offered this year for the first time. When I spoke with Bruce Chapman in planning they said they are basically learning as they go.

 

[AAStew]

The problem is that it was not fully explained that hours would not be added at all. I won't argue about it anymore, as you can see the other FA on here is in danger also of having to pay as are quite a few others I have spoken to. The program is not equitable, so no do not take it if you are a low time flier, keep dropping your trips unless you want to pay for insurance.

 

[jimntx]

No it isn't covered in the contract. It is something new they offered this year for the first time. When I spoke with Bruce Chapman in planning they said they are basically learning as they go.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The 420 Threshhold has been around since the RPA which went into effect 01APR03. And, I know partnership flying has been around at least that long because when I got my WARN letter in May, 2003, a friend and I tried to sign up for partnership flying. We were told that people subject to the furlough were not eligible for it.

 

[AAStew]

Yes 420 has been around but there has NEVER been partnership before this year. They haven't had a need for it because they has enough leave takers.
I think all of you are missing the point of this post. Partnership is fine if you suddenly decide you want to fly low time and you have a very high lookback. If you have been an erratic flyer, flying high some months and low others and just maintaining you 420, this could have you paying for benefits when those hightime months fall off.