F/A Contract Suggestions?

jimntx

Veteran
Jun 28, 2003
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Dallas, TX
www.usaviation.com
Here are the ideas that I sent to the Negotiating team when they asked for suggestions as to changes/improvements to the contract when negotiations begin next year. Anyone else?

1. Allow trading of sequence first/last days as other airlines permit. For instance, I have a 3-day sequence to fly Mon-Wed. However, my Dr. wants to see me on Wednesday. Currently, I have to change the Dr's appt or get rid of/call in sick for the entire sequence. We should have the ability to trade/drop the first or last day of a sequence without losing the entire trip.
2. Allow trading with Open time up until 1800 of the day prior to sequence beginning. What difference should it make to the company whether sequence A or sequence B is not yet covered, or who is working the trip as long as someone is working the trip? If it is not covered at 1900, a reserve gets it anyway.
3. Make sure that ALL uncovered trips are in Open time as soon as they become uncovered. Allow f/as on availability to trade with/self-plot trips from Open Time until 1800 Central time day prior to sequence beginning. I find it odd that during the period that Open Replacement f/as can pick up trips--0500 until 1200--there never seems to be much of anything except 5 hour turns in Open Time. However, f/as on MU get 2 and 3 day trips as do the Reserves. The company denies that this is happening, but it does.
4. Get us paid something (even if it's only minimum wage) for cleaning the a/c on through flights. If nothing else it would stop the "let's make the f/as clean the plane" routings--such as the "through flights" from TPA to DFW to GDL that NEVER have any through passengers and which inbound crews to DFW rarely work on the outbound leg (or at least no one ever remembers a through passenger on that route).
5. Get Ground/Holding time automatically paid through the computer. It is ridiculous that the f/as have to manually apply for these payments when the company knows quite well when passengers are on the a/c and there are delays for which the f/as should be paid.
6. Get flight pay for sitting around the airport when a first flight of the day is cancelled/delayed and the situation was known well before the crew left the layover hotel or left home for sign-in on the first day (let's say 1 hour prior to sign-in). It is unfair of the company to allow a crew to leave the hotel on time after a short layover then have to sit around the airport for 2 or more hours because of a known weather/ATC/maintenance issue. (If nothing else, the crew might get more rest at the hotel.)
7. Financial penalty--such as, flight pay from time of call--for Crew Scheduling calling reserves in the middle of the night during 12-hour mandatory rest (the company does not need a HISEND requesting uninterrupted rest for something that is contractual). It would also stop f/as having to fight with scheduling to have missed trips removed when f/a knows contract and refuses to answer phone during rest period (has happened to me). This penalty should also apply in situations where Scheduling calls in the middle of the night to assign a trip that does not even sign in until after 0800.
8. Corollary to #7: Two-hour call out time should begin at the END of the 12-hour mandatory rest period. It is not a 12-hour rest period if a reserve can be assigned a sequence that signs in or in some cases DEPARTS at 12:01 from end of last sequence.
9. Flight attendants who do not fly at least 35 hours every month should lose seniority unless they are on a documented medical/educational/family leave or special assignment for the company or the union.
10. Flight attendants who do not fly 35 hours/month for 2 or more consecutive months (except for reasons noted in #9) should lose all travel benefits until they have once again flown 35 hours/month for 2 or more months--i.e., loss of travel benefits for a minimum of 2 months.
11. Flight attendants who put their name on a domestic transfer list should be required to accept transfer--regular or mutual--if offered, with a 6-month lock-in--just like International proffers.
12. Alternative to #11: Flight attendants who refuse a domestic mutual transfer should not be allowed to put their name on the transfer list for the refused base for a minimum of 12 months from date of refusal. (There was a f/a at DFW who put her name on the transfer list to another base. There are a large number of f/as at that base on the transfer list to DFW. Every time that f/a's name came up for mutual transfer, she would refuse the transfer. She would then turn right around and put her name back on the transfer list to that base. She finally accepted a "regular" transfer to that base causing one person from that base to lose the opportunity to transfer to DFW. Don't ask. I haven't a clue as to her motivation for those actions. I just know from a friend that it happened.)
13. Pay--again, even minimum wage--for airport sit time greater than 1 hour. This month at SLT we have a 2-day sequence on our bidsheet that is worth 12.10--no P&C. It has 8 hours and 55 minutes of airport sit time in those two days.

I am well aware that a number of these, if not all, will be ignored either by the negotiating committee or the company or both. I just couldn't resist sending them in anyway--particularly #9 and #10. :lol:

Anyone else send any suggestions to the committee? If not, don't just complain. E-mail your suggestions to '[email protected]'.
 
It is funny because of all the things you mentioned I disagreed most with your issues about people flying less than 35 hrs. I fly high time and if it wasn't for those people dropping trips then that would not be possible. Also...at some point in my life, I might want to drop all my trips too. One of the best things about this job is the flexibility to work as much or as little as needed. If you think that making people fly more will get them to quit...I think time has told us that this doesn't work as well as you may think it does. All the people who only flew part time didn't quit and the 35 hr threshold hasn't made them quit either. I agree with you on the other points..especially about the transfers.


btw...we will all have our chance to let the negotiating committee know what we think when they send out the surveys.
 
Jim,

I agree with you on most things, especially TTOT being open until the day before.

As for the 35 hour threshold, I think you should have the flexibility to fly as little or as much as you want. If you want to drop it all then you should be able to keep your travel priviliges. I DON'T think that you should expect to have medical if you only fly 35 hours a month. That privilege is being funded by the full time flight attendants on the line. It's great that those people don't have to come to work but unrealistic to think that you can retain full medical coverage for part time work indefinitely, especially in the cost cutting environment we currently find ourselves in. The pie is only so big. I think it is enough of a privilege to retain your job and travel benefits for flying nothing.

My suggestions:

Reserve:
Have a few high time reserve lines with a 90 hour guarantee, a few low time reserve lines with a 50 hour guarantee, and keep the rest of the reserve lines regular lines. That way, those who want to fly will be utilized and those who don't won't have to be the company's bi*ch for the entire month.

Reserve TTOT: Allow us to trade like trips for like trips with other fa's during the ENTIRE year. If you have a 3 day you should be able to trade with another FA for a 3 day.

(A friend of mine came up with this). Allow reserves to HIPLOT the trips in open time for one hour prior to assigning the sequences. If they assign you trips at 7 then allow us to assign our own trip from 6-7. Most of the trips would probably fly out of open time and they wouldn't have to worry about as many sick calls. They may eliminate sick calls this way by allowing us to get our own trips.

Allow flight attendants access to the actual list of who is above you so you could really see where you are in line for a trip. That HI25 is pure and utter crap.

Sick clearance time:
Move it up to 12pm. Allow avbl from 5am-12, make up can then begin at 12 noon and then process reserves at 4 or 5pm.


Bid Closing Time:
Close bidding on the 15th of the month so your schedule is out by the 18th for the next month.

TTOT

Allow trip trading with open time up until noon the day before your trip.

If you have time on your schedule you should be allowed to pluck trips out of open time without having a trip to trade or AVBL days.

AVBL:
Eliminate the preplotting max or make it 90 like it is on TTOT.
 
The Glading '08 Slate[/url]

stop trying to hijack this thread. It's about what we want, not who to vote for. There are plenty of other threads on here about who is running.

Take your Reserve until Retirement slate and stick it.
 
Jim and everyone else who has offered suggestions.

I like and agree with allot of your suggestions. Although I can only comment on the ones that I have Knowledge about.

TTOT I agree 100% who cares allow TTOT up until 1800 prior the day of the trip. (Then how do you solve or change make up procedures) For Example...a very senior f/a sends a hs or verbally requests a specific sequence that she should be able to hold with her seniority. When we get to her name a junior f/a has already TTOT and picked up that sequence. How would you suggest we make the changes to MU in order to allow TTOT until 1800 the day prior?


You said in suggestion number 3 that make sure that all uncovered trips are in open time, as they become available. There is not a single person in crew schedule that hides trips. When one person calls in sick for that or the next day the trip is opened at that moment.

The company has asked the APFA to allow us to open the sick list at 1000 the day prior so AVBL F/A would have the chance to get the 2,3,and 4 day trips.
It would also give the commuters who fly MU the opportunity to chose flights they like to commute in earlier if they saw the trips open earlier.
I do not know why the Union does not want the sk list opened early but they have refused that every time it is brought to the table.

To have the phone calls stop in the middle of the night the APFA and the company need to agree that crew schedule is forbidden to call during the rest break. At this point in time we are allowed to call at any time. You just do not have to answer the phone until the end of the rest. (That makes for tense situations and annomocity)

You will never make everyone happy but some people like to know as soon as possible what trip they have. I have been yelled at for not calling until the morning for a 1200 sign in when the trip opened at 0100 and I have been yelled at for calling. It is a no win situation.

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Now for my few suggestions.

1) Eliminate the Monthly Max restriction on all Line Holders. Still put a cap on what you can forcibly be assigned but why not allow a F/A who wants to fly 100 plus hours the ability to do so with out waiting for Option II to open. Keep a reserve Monthly max and Eliminate AVBL all together.

2) Open the sick list a 1000 the day prior.

3) Eliminate the Dom only Intl only quals. INTL and DOM should be the same.

4) Everyone needs to be qualed on all equipment. And if a Flight Attendant allows their qualls to expire then they should not be allowed any flight benefits until they are qualed to fly. There are plenty of people who have worked the system and are qualled only on the 767 in a base that is heavily staffed with S80's.

5) Back top my suggestion number 3. Still build all INTL lines and ALL dom lines and reward them through seniority. But there should be no reason someone on reserve should not be allowed to fly an INTL trip versus a DOM trip. Who cares?

6) Get back the money you lost. Get back the money I lost money get it back

Thanks for reading please comment
 
stop trying to hijack this thread. It's about what we want, not who to vote for. There are plenty of other threads on here about who is running.

Take your Reserve until Retirement slate and stick it.


I just said what I wanted. :up:

Take your Skymess and stick it!
 
Jim and everyone else who has offered suggestions.

I like and agree with a lot of your suggestions. Although I can only comment on the ones that I have Knowledge about.

TTOT I agree 100% who cares allow TTOT up until 1800 prior the day of the trip. (Then how do you solve or change make up procedures) For Example...a very senior f/a sends a hs or verbally requests a specific sequence that she should be able to hold with her seniority. When we get to her name a junior f/a has already TTOT and picked up that sequence. How would you suggest we make the changes to MU in order to allow TTOT until 1800 the day prior?

I suggested that the TTOT stop by a certain period to allow for makeup. TTOT should be allowed all during the AVBL time period. I suggest: AVBL and TTOT 1st, MU, Reserve TTOT, and then RSV assignments.


You said in suggestion number 3 that make sure that all uncovered trips are in open time, as they become available. There is not a single person in crew schedule that hides trips. When one person calls in sick for that or the next day the trip is opened at that moment.

I do not know why the Union does not want the sk list opened early but they have refused that every time it is brought to the table.

I don't really know why other than a control issue.



You will never make everyone happy but some people like to know as soon as possible what trip they have. I have been yelled at for not calling until the morning for a 1200 sign in when the trip opened at 0100 and I have been yelled at for calling. It is a no win situation.

You are correct; it is a no win situation. I prefer to be notified right away and others want to be notified in the morning. If I know at night I can at least plan my strategy for getting there on time.

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Now for my few suggestions.

1) Eliminate the Monthly Max restriction on all Line Holders. Still put a cap on what you can forcibly be assigned but why not allow a F/A who wants to fly 100 plus hours the ability to do so with out waiting for Option II to open. Keep a reserve Monthly max and Eliminate AVBL all together.

Not sure what you mean my monthly max restrictions for line holders. We can fly what we want to fly. Do you mean, lift the restriction on TTOT to unlimited? I completely agree there.

2) Open the sick list a 1000 the day prior.

I would say not until 12.

3) Eliminate the Dom only Intl only quals. INTL and DOM should be the same.
COMPLETELY disagree. I like the separation. We let down that wall and the company starts building lines with cruddy domestic turns or 2 days to offset the time for each line. No thanks.

4) Everyone needs to be qualed on all equipment. And if a Flight Attendant allows their qualls to expire then they should not be allowed any flight benefits until they are qualed to fly. There are plenty of people who have worked the system and are qualled only on the 767 in a base that is heavily staffed with S80's.

Everyone ON RESERVE should be qualified on all equipment. If you aren't on reserve at your base I don't think you should be. For now. There does come a time where people have to realize that AA is a business and not a country club.
 
The problem with #2 is that we will have no idea what our manning is for the next day till 1800 or what ever time it is that you want to trade till. Plus we run make up starting at 12n. I do not want trips appearing and disappearing when I am proffering trips. That’s a pay claim waiting to happen.

Not sure what #3 means but you are aware that the sick list is what clears at 1600 right? If you think we like releasing AVBL’s at 12n when there are still x number of trips on the sick list till 1600, you’re nuts. We would love to have the sick list cleared at 1100 or 1200 but your union will not do it. The turn come open from PVD’s more than likely. If you think we are “holding out†on sequences, come on up to Crew Skd any day you want and prove it to me. I have been there for close to 10 years and we look for ways to open up trips before AVBL get cut loose. We used to clear people off the seq early if they had a sick date of say a few weeks out or more but we got busted on that.

Good luck on #5 or anything else that requires ‘programming’. We fight with stuff like that all the time for things that are far more critical and it’s like pissing up stream in a hurricane.

#6 How about crew be responsible for looking at their skd more than 3 hours out? I am tied of having to call entire crews to notify them of delays. We are not your mother and you should be responsible for your own skd as well. Lap tops are a dime a dozen and then there is always the phone. On that same note. I know you would like to think there is a conspiracy but when we get an advisement notification from tracking, we call. Now when there is weather somewhere in the system as there was in ORD when I worked there a few days ago typically more then one plane is late (I know go figure). So when I have 15 or 20 or more advisements to call with an avg of 3 persons per a advisement, we will get to it as quick as we can so this is where the “taking responsibility for your own skd†comes in to play. Try looking at the weather report when you wake up and if you see a storm in ORD/DFW/NE try looking at your skd and see what’s happing.

OH yea, ANSWER YOUR DAMN PHONE WHEN WE CALL!!!!!!!

First of all you don’t have to answer your phone when on rest. Second, if you tell us you do not want to be disturbed we do our best not too do so. I have received countless notices on my turn overs. I have been yelled at for calling to late, calling to early, waiting too long and not waiting long enough. What works for you may not work for someone else. Some people commute and need more time, some don’t and do not need the time. Some folks do not mind being called late for a seq which leaves late the next day because then they know they can do what they want the next day till dept time. You people think we are out to get you? I got news for you. We don’t give a rats ass. We will do what ever the contract/LOA says. In the instances where we have discretion, most of us try and treat you the way we wish to be treated. Keep in mind I have been yelled at for do the exact things you want me to do as well as the things that you don’t want me to do. Geez people, MAKE UP YOUR MIND!! And while you are at it, come on down to Crew skd for a day and see what goes on. Try it on an OSO day so you can see the volume that we can deal with.

Question, you got in at 1600, I have a trip that leaves at 0630 and I get that trip at 2100 lets say. When do you want me to call you? I would rather be called at 2100 so I could get my stuff together, according to your opinion, you would rather be called at 0400 for a 0630 departure. If I call you are 0430 will you be able to fight rush hour? Would you have been able to beat it if I called you the night before?

While we are talking about ‘penalties’. How about penalties for calling in less than 2 hours out? Commuters who make no effort to get their sorry ass into base when they know weather is coming 2 or 3 days before hand? Failure to accept a contractually legal reassignment? Shall I go on? I have a very long list.

#9 works for me.

Skymess,

I believe the reserve TT with other FAs is permanent. Unless something has changed on that.

I have no problem with TTOT till 12n but it is not going to help you damn bit unless you convince the union to clear the sick list before 12n. I work nights and a majority (90% or more) of open time in on the sick list till 1600.

I say we just get rid of AVBL all together. It is a waste (unless the sick list opens before the AVBLS get released.

A few things that I want:

Sick list cleared at 1100

If you’re on MU you have to contact us with what you want. Tired of the folks on the list and never answer their phones and who never fly

Get rid of the commuter policy. I live where I work and work where I live. If you chose not to, goody gum drops for you. It is your responsibility to get your ass to work in time for your flight. If you fail to make your flight, there should be no under staffing pay and the FA who misses their flight should be penalized.

All FA’s should be required to look at their seq prior to the end of their 15/30 in debrief. If there is added flying prior to the end of the debrief, you are considered notified. I am tired of playing “where’s Waldoâ€.


Like I keep telling people. Come down and play with us for a day or 2. Make sure one is an OSO day so you can see how we try and keep flights going. We do our best to treat all of you the same. There are a hand full (I have about 6 or 7 on my list) who have a special place in our heart but for the most part we do not care about who you are. You are a name and a number on our screen and we just don’t care. We are not allowed to because if we show favoritism we get in trouble. We do not conspire against you because that would mean we care and we honestly don’t. We are there for 8 hours and then we go home.
 
My suggestions to negotiators would be to go and confer with you guys in scheduling and to run ideas by you to figure out why or why you wouldn't think they would/could work.

There are a lot of variables I hadn't thought of in both operations' and garfield's posts.

I don't want to do away with avbl because I don't want the reserve list to get even more senior. So I would be willing to do whatever it took to make sure avbl is still there and it works the best way it could.
 
Skymess.

wow what a novel idea. Get together APFA and crew schedule to talk about things that would benifit both parties. Well that will only work if it is done right. You and I both know that if they do that they will pick some upper level APFA people who havent flown a trip or worked a line in ages. And the company would pick people from the management side of crew schedule that have weekends and Holidays off and never work a desk and have absolutley no clue what the heck is going on. It would work if the schedulers and flight attendants could meet. Not managment and the APFA.

And as for Garfield statements ...I do not believe one bit that he doesnt care at all. I for one do care.....but it is hard to show how much you care when every day no matter what you do you get treated like crap and talked to like crap. It makes coming into work miserable. Nothing we do as schedulers is ever good enough for anyone
 
I don't want to do away with avbl because I don't want the reserve list to get even more senior. So I would be willing to do whatever it took to make sure avbl is still there and it works the best way it could.


AA increases flying = More lines of time to fly! Wow, what a concept.
 
I did not mean I did not care per se but that we basically cannot care and I think that is a good thing in many ways. You do not want me, Opps or anyone else to use 'our judgement' as to when an exception should be made. If you need to come off a trip for what ever reason that is important to you, there are avenues to achieve that from PO to TM. The same needs apply to everyone. I do not care that your dog passed away (I have a dog and several cats and they are my kids) to a meeting to what ever. It is all important but not too me. You are a FA coming off a flight I need to cover. I will not show you preference over someone else. You don't what that and I sure as heck do not want that. That is why I do not care.

Jim, if you read what I wrote, when I say "you" I do not mean YOU. I mean the general you. I respect your opinions and I did not mean it as a shot at you specifically. I hope you do not take it that way.

Skymess.

As for Intl/Dom how about this. The lines stay the same but the FA's get combined into one pool. Would that work? And by the way. I like the negotiation idea. You are in charge. Make it happen. :D
 
The company has asked the APFA to allow us to open the sick list at 1000 the day prior so AVBL F/A would have the chance to get the 2,3,and 4 day trips. .... I do not know why the Union does not want the sk list opened early but they have refused that every time it is brought to the table.
My guess would be that it's to protect the right of the person holding the trip to reclaim it in a reasonable time frame. Although I understand the reasons for wanting the sick trip available earlier (I myself would be able to grab such trips more easily), 10am is a bit early for a person to decide if they can fly the next day or not.

MK
 
My guess would be that it's to protect the right of the person holding the trip to reclaim it in a reasonable time frame. Although I understand the reasons for wanting the sick trip available earlier (I myself would be able to grab such trips more easily), 10am is a bit early for a person to decide if they can fly the next day or not.

MK


Really? If I wake up sick and I am still feeling like crap at 10a I pretty much guess the rest of the day will not be much different. I do not ever remember feeling bad at 10a and fully recovered from what ever I had by 1600.

Also, just speaking from personally experience, the number of trips on the sick list at 7a or so when we run the numbers very rarely changes by more than 1 or 2 at the most and that is a rare occasion. Not saying it does not happen, but it is certainly a very small percentage.