Blue Zebra - TWU Local 514 Strategy

[MCI transplant]

Yes I remember the "secrecy" policy of the TWU. Who benifits from keeping all this secret? The Company. Thats why the TWU does it. They take the Neg Com and drag them away from their families for an extended period of time so they can wear them down-in secret and get them to accept and endorse an inferior agreement.

We as a board told Gless, then President of 562 that if he did not share information as to what was going on then the local would not authorize him to go and would not pay his expenses. If Gless "chose to follow the directives of the International and not the wishes of his members then let the International pay him" was the thought behind it.

If you recall during the 2001 negs they spent two weeks on bulletin boards. In negotiations prior and this one the members would never have known this. Obviously those in control of the process wanted to drag things out and limit the amount of time availaible to real issues. They did not want it to get out what they were really offering because they knew there was a good chance that a dissapointing offer would be reflected in the operations. At that time we saw UALs "Summer of Hell" and various other disruptions attributed to unhappy workers. Unfortunately none of the E-boards out there now have any balls and appear content to just ride along. Wholiano is by far the worst President I've seen from New York in my 21 years. We hear nothing from him. He does without question anything the International tells him to do and refusees to do anything that would annoy or challenge management. Halfway through his term and he has written maybe ten letters to the members at best. We made Gless e-mail us info we could pass on at least once a week. Other Locals used to see what New York and LAX were doing, New York being the more vocally militant force between the two, now our only hope is LAX and that local remains weakened due to a lot of complicated lingering issues from the TWA merger and the massive layoffs it saw.

Things are not looking good and we have no clear leadership nor the immediate means of getting any. Maybe we should consider merging with LAX so at least JR would have a bigger budget and more members. Better to have one less face at negotiations than one that just sits there and fails to support. The money we are paying 562 is doing nothing as far as getting us a better contract.

<_< ---- Bob, I believe we agree on about 99% of most issues, but as you know there is always two sides to every story, and if what I've been told by my exTWA brothers from LAX is half true, I don't what to have anything to do with them! I Know now is not the time, but those "lingering issues" go both ways!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ---- Bob, I believe we agree on about 99% of most issues, but as you know there is always two sides to every story, and if what I've been told by my exTWA brothers from LAX are half true, I don't what to have anything to do with them! I Know nows not the time, but those lingering issues go both ways!!!

Do you have a choice? I'm sure some of your ex-TWA brothers have some bad things to say as to how some treated them in NY, from what I hear things are even worse at LGA than JFK. We either learn to stick together or we all are screwed. Lets get our money first, then we can afford to bicker about where we stand in line.

One of the things that made it easier for me to vote for the exTwa candidate at Local 562 for President was the fact that lies were circulated out of the Wholiano camp that Lou (ex-TWA) was promising to get the TWA guys all their seniority. That was the final straw for Wholiano for me.

 

[Ed Norton]

Blue zebra, wow I'm sure that just scares the hell out headquarters. I guess blue zebra would be appropiate from a union that could be called a white elephant. <_<

Blue Zebra? This clown has been watching too many war movies...
Here's a novel idea. Since Local 100 has a giant rat, maybe Local 514 can get a giant blues zebra. Mount it on a trailer and have an e-board member on UB tow it up and down N. Mingo Road!
While they're at it, they can have a giant snake also. That should put the fear of God into AA management! Just like WWF, a Blue Zebra/ Strike Snake tag team!
Pass me the Big Gulp and the pork rinds!

 

[Hopeful]

Do you have a choice? I'm sure some of your ex-TWA brothers have some bad things to say as to how some treated them in NY, from what I hear things are even worse at LGA than JFK. We either learn to stick together or we all are screwed. Lets get our money first, then we can afford to bicker about where we stand in line.

One of the things that made it easier for me to vote for the exTwa candidate at Local 562 for President was the fact that lies were circulated out of the Wholiano camp that Lou (ex-TWA) was promising to get the TWA guys all their seniority. That was the final straw for Wholiano for me.

Sounds to me like you are blaming native AAers for AA/TWA employee relations....I suppose the native TWAers are all innocent of any wrong doing by constantly reminding the rest of about the "lawsuit" and how some of them can't wait to get their seniority back to bump our AA asses back to midnights....

How many native AAers swap shifts and days off on a regular basis with native TWAers so they can spend some time at home when commuting?
Of course, everyone benefits with a mutual swap,, but if things were that bad, No AAer would swap with a TWAer.

 

[Boomer]

Yes I remember the "secrecy" policy of the TWU. Who benifits from keeping all this secret? The Company. Thats why the TWU does it. They take the Neg Com and drag them away from their families for an extended period of time so they can wear them down-in secret and get them to accept and endorse an inferior agreement.

We as a board told Gless, then President of 562 that if he did not share information as to what was going on then the local would not authorize him to go and would not pay his expenses. If Gless "chose to follow the directives of the International and not the wishes of his members then let the International pay him" was the thought behind it.

If you recall during the 2001 negs they spent two weeks on bulletin boards. In negotiations prior and this one the members would never have known this. Obviously those in control of the process wanted to drag things out and limit the amount of time availaible to real issues. They did not want it to get out what they were really offering because they knew there was a good chance that a dissapointing offer would be reflected in the operations. At that time we saw UALs "Summer of Hell" and various other disruptions attributed to unhappy workers. Unfortunately none of the E-boards out there now have any balls and appear content to just ride along. Wholiano is by far the worst President I've seen from New York in my 21 years. We hear nothing from him. He does without question anything the International tells him to do and refusees to do anything that would annoy or challenge management. Halfway through his term and he has written maybe ten letters to the members at best. We made Gless e-mail us info we could pass on at least once a week. Other Locals used to see what New York and LAX were doing, New York being the more vocally militant force between the two, now our only hope is LAX and that local remains weakened due to a lot of complicated lingering issues from the TWA merger and the massive layoffs it saw.

Things are not looking good and we have no clear leadership nor the immediate means of getting any. Maybe we should consider merging with LAX so at least JR would have a bigger budget and more members. Better to have one less face at negotiations than one that just sits there and fails to support. The money we are paying 562 is doing nothing as far as getting us a better contract.

There is no excuse for not cutting the purse strings to any Union Member involved in negotiations if they fail to comply; any and every TWU Member needs to make the motion for defunding negotiations support if they really care about their contract.

 

[MCI transplant]

Sounds to me like you are blaming native AAers for AA/TWA employee relations....I suppose the native TWAers are all innocent of any wrong doing by constantly reminding the rest of about the "lawsuit" and how some of them can't wait to get their seniority back to bump our AA asses back to midnights....

How many native AAers swap shifts and days off on a regular basis with native TWAers so they can spend some time at home when commuting?
Of course, everyone benefits with a mutual swap,, but if things were that bad, No AAer would swap with a TWAer.

<_< ------ We could discuss this further, but Bob is right about one thing. We have to release that now is not the time, or place, to do so! Therefore, at least, for the time being, I will not comment further on this subject!

 

[TWU informer]

I want my $$hit back!

 

[MCI transplant]

I want my $$hit back!

<_< ------I can see it now! A pick line with nothing but your "Blue Zebra" on the pickets!!!

 

[Raptor]

Is this blue Zebra stuff really true ?

It doesn't sound logical :huh:

 

[TWU informer]

Is this blue Zebra stuff really true ?

It doesn't sound logical :huh:

The "Blue Zebra" was communicated directly from Steve Louis to the Shop Stewards at last Monday's Monthly Steward meeting.

I know is hard to believe, but yes it TWU true.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sounds to me like you are blaming native AAers for AA/TWA employee relations....I suppose the native TWAers are all innocent of any wrong doing by constantly reminding the rest of about the "lawsuit" and how some of them can't wait to get their seniority back to bump our AA asses back to midnights....

How many native AAers swap shifts and days off on a regular basis with native TWAers so they can spend some time at home when commuting?
Of course, everyone benefits with a mutual swap,, but if things were that bad, No AAer would swap with a TWAer.

That TWA seniority lawsuit was over months ago. We had a posting on our bulletin boards here in DFW that they had LOST!!!!! If you never got the news then your local is not doing a very good job in getting that info out to you. When you get it then throw it right back in there faces. I've met AAers from STL that were treated like S**T by the TWAers before they all got laid off and sent to other stations. Then what happened to alot of them? OOps half the station was cut and again OOps No protection, No job for you!! ( I have no sympathy for those TWAers who treated those AAers the way they did, To the others God Bless You and I hope you found a new home somewhere in the system)

 

[MCI transplant]

That TWA seniority lawsuit was over months ago. We had a posting on our bulletin boards here in DFW that they had LOST!!!!! If you never got the news then your local is not doing a very good job in getting that info out to you. When you get it then throw it right back in there faces. I've met AAers from STL that were treated like S**T by the TWAers before they all got laid off and sent to other stations. Then what happened to alot of them? OOps half the station was cut and again OOps No protection, No job for you!! ( I have no sympathy for those TWAers who treated those AAers the way they did, To the others God Bless You and I hope you found a new home somewhere in the system)

<_< ------ Why is it, all I read in posts like yours is hate? Did some exTWAer personally intrude into your privileged little world? I pity you man!!! :down:

 

[WeAAsles]

<_< ------ Why is it, all I read in posts like yours is hate? Did some exTWAer personally intrude into your privileged little world? I pity you man!!! :down:

Maybe you should read what I wrote before criticising me? Obviously you're the one with the ax to grind. I was speaking about the ungreatful to still have a job TWAers. In the airline industry the situation could have easily been reversed. If it had been TWA that bailed out American I would have been very respectful and said THANK YOU. I would not have been part of any lawsuit to gain false seniority that I never earned above you. Stop blaming us for your lot in life. You should be looking for Icahn. He screwed you not AA.

To any former TWAer (not counting you MCI transplant) I've always been very proud and happy to know you and completly count you as my union brother. Glad to have you with us.

 

[MCI transplant]

Maybe you should read what I wrote before criticising me? Obviously you're the one with the ax to grind. I was speaking about the ungreatful to still have a job TWAers. In the airline industry the situation could have easily been reversed. If it had been TWA that bailed out American I would have been very respectful and said THANK YOU. I would not have been part of any lawsuit to gain false seniority that I never earned above you. Stop blaming us for your lot in life. You should be looking for Icahn. He screwed you not AA.

To any former TWAer (not counting you MCI transplant) I've always been very proud and happy to know you and completely count you as my union brother. Glad to have you with us.

<_< ------- Which way is it weAAsles? Your "Glad to have you with us"? Or we're the S.O.B.'s who file law suits, and displace nAAtive American employees? Which is it man? You talk about something that you perceived happened in STL? I can say the same from what I heard about in LAX! I've tried to put these things behind me! But snot nosed little kids like yourself keep trying to bait me every time I turn around!-------Get a life man! It's over! It's a done deal! You may not like it! I sure as hell don't! But that's the way it is! Live with it!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

<_< ------- Which way is it weAAsles? Your "Glad to have you with us"? Or we're the S.O.B.'s who file law suits, and displace nAAtive American employees? Which is it man? You talk about something that you perceived happened in STL? I can say the same from what I heard about in LAX! I've tried to put these things behind me! But snot nosed little kids like yourself keep trying to bait me every time I turn around!-------Get a life man! It's over! It's a done deal! You may not like it! I sure as hell don't! But that's the way it is! Live with it!!!!

Hey MCI transplant, I'm Sorry!!! I'm really not looking to bait you. For the most part the ex TWAers I met in fleet have been very nice people. I am talking about around 35 guys in STL that should have been grandfathered though and placed at the top of the seniority list there. Now if I wanted to transfer there should I have retained seniority over those ex TWAers? NO NO NO. They earned there seniority there not me. I lived in MIA with 2 ex STL AAers who told me how they were treated there and it just wasn't right. Onto your point of view. I started in LGA and I hear how TWAers are treated there and thats not right either. I guess it's been the same way in many 25% cities and it's not right at all.

Anyway listen, You're right and I'm sorry. It is a done deal and it has to be put behind all of us. We're all airline and union brothers now and going back to the topic at hand. I hope we are all prepared to do whats necesary when the time comes? Great sucess and health MCI transplant.

P.S. I'm 42. I don't have any snots running down my nose except in the winter maybe, lol.