TWU Local 514 - Ballots Are Being Counted

[Wretched Wrench]

Good Lord, I guess I should have expected this pathetic attempt of a spin from you Dave. You went way out for this one!! But you don't seem to have a clue as to what goes on....union or no union. You don't even have a clue as to who you are talking to! You are too busy spreading rumors and rhetoric. It is quite amusing. Lucky you have so many followers here on these boards. You can't quite get away with it on the base now can you. Nice shift of blame by the way Dave. Classic Informer!!!

So....no comment from you on our new officers?????

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I gotta wave the ad hominum flag on this one.

.

 

[Bill]

Why is this question so hard to answer?

I have no idea. I'm a grunt like you. You will have to go outside your box and ask someone who knows. It's not uncommon...most locals have a pass code. So, sorry to disappoint you but no conspiracy here.

The answer is...An Un-informed member is a good member. If they don't have a passcode, they will never know what goes on.

This is so amusing. Does your local not have their website secured and you need a password to access it amfaman? Good lord, talk about jumping on the bandwagon.

The only uninformed members are the ones who choose to be and there are plenty right here on these boards.

Your arguments are getting weak and frankly desparate!

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I gotta wave the ad hominum flag on this one.

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Nope, just ipso facto Wrench!! Ipso facto.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Does your local not have their website secured and you need a password to access it amfaman?

No it is not secure, in fact Tulsa appears to be the only passcoded site among the maintenance station locals.

 

[TWU informer]

Before anyone else disregards the potential rigged election using unauthorized ballot mailing of historical "non-voters", you should check out the Association for Union Democracy website and read some of their material. The AUD has more than one example in their available documentation of exactly that happening and the perps were caught! Not likely to catch them here in Tulsa though, because the sheep are too stupid to even suspect something might be wrong with their union.

And by the way, I am not trying to get anyone on the base to buy this theory, I heard it from a Candidate while I was at the base myself. If you choose to believe the TWU Incumbent Leadership is incapable of such an act, then you have a problem, not me.

Bill's philosophy is that a union leader beat in an election is a lost union officer, thus we are doomed and shot ourselves in the foot because some were lost in the election. This is same mentality that leads to management bonuses being needed to retain top brass. It is not far fetched that management would justify bonuses for retention of "good ol'e boys", while the TWU will justify a fraudulent election to do the same, the ends justifies the means in the sick bastards' minds.

Folks like Bill and Wrench who would completely discount the possibility of wrong doing when every member you speak to claims to have voted to oust the incumbents are exactly why non-democratic unions continue to exist. Bill is right about one thing, for 20 plus years we have gotten what we deserve and it will continue to be a bumpy ride as long as the sheep keep theirs eyes and minds closed.

Bring on more concessions for jobs! The sheep have not yet had enough!

 

[Bill]

Before anyone else disregards the potential rigged election using unauthorized ballot mailing of historical "non-voters", you should check out the Association for Union Democracy website and read some of their material. The AUD has more than one example in their available documentation of exactly that happening and the perps were caught! Not likely to catch them here in Tulsa though, because the sheep are too stupid to even suspect something might be wrong with their union.

And by the way, I am not trying to get anyone on the base to buy this theory, I heard it from a Candidate while I was at the base myself. If you choose to believe the TWU Incumbent Leadership is incapable of such an act, then you have a problem, not me.

Bill's philosophy is that a union leader beat in an election is a lost union officer, thus we are doomed and shot ourselves in the foot because some were lost in the election. This is same mentality that leads to management bonuses being needed to retain top brass. It is not far fetched that management would justify bonuses for retention of "good ol'e boys", while the TWU will justify a fraudulent election to do the same, the ends justifies the means in the sick bastards' minds.

Folks like Bill and Wrench who would completely discount the possibility of wrong doing when every member you speak to claims to have voted to oust the incumbents are exactly why non-democratic unions continue to exist. Bill is right about one thing, for 20 plus years we have gotten what we deserve and it will continue to be a bumpy ride as long as the sheep keep theirs eyes and minds closed.

Bring on more concessions for jobs! The sheep have not yet had enough!

What I am saying is that the folks who practically put our success in motion at 514 are replaced by men who could care less about the working together process and know little to nothing about how to run the office they were elected to AND, elected at the most critical time in our history. When I say you don't have a clue I mean just that. It is very easy to sit back an observe and gripe and complain about a process you know nothing about. He said, she said...heresay. Yeh that's the cowardly approach. Company execs get a payout and you blame those in office at 514 now. Three who will not be returning to office were the only ones who didn't spoon feed the members. They didn't coddle or offer their shoulder to cry on. They told the membership exactly the way things were and people got pissed off because it wasn't what they wanted to hear. Well boo freakin hoo. If you can't take the truth and blame the messenger then you do deserve what you get. And you are damn right....it will be a very bumpy ride!!

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Since "outsiders" are not allowed into the Tulsa 514 "secret society" h34r: website, would one of the insiders h34r: care to please post the results of the local 514 "election"?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

What I am saying is that the folks who practically put our success in motion at 514 are replaced by men who could care less about the working together process and know little to nothing about how to run the office they were elected to AND, elected at the most critical time in our history. When I say you don't have a clue I mean just that. It is very easy to sit back an observe and gripe and complain about a process you know nothing about. He said, she said...heresay. Yeh that's the cowardly approach. Company execs get a payout and you blame those in office at 514 now. Three who will not be returning to office were the only ones who didn't spoon feed the members. They didn't coddle or offer their shoulder to cry on. They told the membership exactly the way things were and people got pissed off because it wasn't what they wanted to hear. Well boo freakin hoo. If you can't take the truth and blame the messenger then you do deserve what you get. And you are damn right....it will be a very bumpy ride!!

Bill,

Your first sentence speaks volumes for your ability to remain ignorant of reality.

Working together process? Is that where the workers sacrifice and management get future bonuses ONTOP of bonuses already received?

Do yourself a favor. Remain behind your alias. It would be sad to know who you are.

 

[Birdman]

What I am saying is that the folks who practically put our success in motion at 514 are replaced by men who could care less about the working together process and know little to nothing about how to run the office they were elected to AND, elected at the most critical time in our history.

Just how did AO manage 100% on time efficiency in the 90's without this organized "working together process"??? We did it despite the TWU, not because of the TWU. Now after millions of dollars in expenses, added CI managers, countless "team" players in committee, and these non-expendable union officials, we're better off with less than 100% efficiency? I'm wondering if any of the incumbents worked in AO in the 90's.
The election is another matter. In this country, just the thought of an election being conducted in such a way that leaves the membership in total doubt of its validity is reprehensible. We can do better.

 

[ch53D]

I have no idea. I'm a grunt like you. You will have to go outside your box and ask someone who knows. It's not uncommon...most locals have a pass code. So, sorry to disappoint you but no conspiracy here.
This is so amusing. Does your local not have their website secured and you need a password to access it amfaman? Good lord, talk about jumping on the bandwagon.

The only uninformed members are the ones who choose to be and there are plenty right here on these boards.

Your arguments are getting weak and frankly desparate!
Nope, just ipso facto Wrench!! Ipso facto.

Bill, I can’t seem to find any pass words. Maybe you help me find them. Maybe the first order of business for the new officers should be to remove the pass word.

http://local530.twuatd.org/

http://www.twu561.org/

http://www.twu562.org/

http://www.twu563.org/

http://www.local564.org/

http://www.twu565.org/

http://local567.twuatd.org/

 

[Bill]

Bill, I can’t seem to find any pass words. Maybe you help me find them. Maybe the first order of business for the new officers should be to remove the pass word.

http://local530.twuatd.org/

http://www.twu561.org/

http://www.twu562.org/

http://www.twu563.org/

http://www.local564.org/

http://www.twu565.org/

http://local567.twuatd.org/

Search a bit harder and maybe you will find some. It appears you don't have much to do anyway!!!


And go to the meetings and make a motion.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Folks like Bill and Wrench who would completely discount the possibility of wrong doing when every member you speak to claims to have voted to oust the incumbents are exactly why non-democratic unions continue to exist.

Please re read my posts. I am at a loss to imagine how you could get the idea that I "would completely discount the possibility of wrong doing". For example, I recently made the observation that rigged elections are an old union tradition. Look it up.

 

[TWU informer]

Please re read my posts. I am at a loss to imagine how you could get the idea that I "would completely discount the possibility of wrong doing". For example, I recently made the observation that rigged elections are an old union tradition. Look it up.

My bad Wrench, I think I misunderstood what the ad hominum flag is. What is that anyway?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

My bad Wrench, I think I misunderstood what the ad hominum flag is. What is that anyway?

OK, now I can settle down. I was in severe distress when I saw myself being mentioned in the same sentence with Bill the TWU Shill.

The ad hominem flag is what you wave when you think someone is making a post that is only a personal attack, as Bill the Shill does quite often when he is out of ideas or just wants to see himself in print. Or maybe the TWU pays him by the word. Anyway, it is a sort of protest flag, like we recently saw in the America's Cup races. The BS flag is common on some forums, too, but seems to not have taken root here.

Anyway, ad hominem is the official term for a personal attack in a debate. It is considered a logical fallacy, and is usually used by someone who cannot win on issues, and somehow figures that if he attacks the person, that person's arguments will be disproved. It is avoided by persons of character and integrity, and will get the offender ousted from many debates and forums.

In logical syllogism, an ad hominem attack is also called a genetic fallacy, which, despite what some may think, does not reference Shill Bill's breeding. Or at least I don't think so. Well..........

 

[The Goose]

Anyway, ad hominem is the official term for a personal attack in a debate. It is considered a logical fallacy, and is usually used by someone who cannot win on issues, and somehow figures that if he attacks the person, that person's arguments will be disproved. It is avoided by persons of character and integrity, and will get the offender ousted from many debates and forums.

Or, in simpler terms yet, the basis of operation in Washington, DC.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Or, in simpler terms yet, the basis of operation in Washington, DC.

Sadly true. And the 08 campaign is just getting started.