BOS-TPA ?

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

W T,
Flight aware (for friday 7/26) was showing ONLY 3 flights between BOS-TPA, all on B6.
This cannot be possible,....can it ?

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, DL pulled back much of its BOS-Florida flying several years ago as part of its buildup of JFK.

glad to see you around "these parts" of the forum.

BTW, 767-300ER on SEA-LHR as it is announced for now.

 

[737823]

W T,
Flight aware (for friday 7/26) was showing ONLY 3 flights between BOS-TPA, all on B6.
This cannot be possible,....can it ?

What else is new? If you want to fly non-stop to anywhere other than airline hub cities from BOS, you'll likely be flying jetBlue. If memory serves me the flying was cut back in Spring 2010. At one point DL had FLL, MCO, PBI, RSW, SRQ, and TPA from BOS but now only 2x MCO. Surprised the MCO flights have stayed around this long.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps for mainline domestic, yes, but DL and US both have several non-hub routes with various types of RJs to cities in the NE, Midwest, and SE and DL has 4 TATL int'l flights this summer and AA has 1.

It should also be noted that DL is now the largest domestic airline in NYC - including all 3 major airports - and has the most flights at both LGA and JFK.

DL also offers more flights than B6 at JFK and offers more seats per dept. than B6 (AA does too showing its not just a bunch of RJs) and nearly twice the amount of ASMs as a result of the longer flights. DL picked the market it wanted to go after in the NE and met its objectives, even if it came at the expense of a smaller presence in other cities, such as DCA, which have also been reduced in size in favor of a larger presence in NYC.

 

[700UW]

This is about BOS and TPA, not JFK and not LGA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

My response explains why DL chose to reduce service at BOS in favor of larger operations in NYC.

I'm sure you don't want to hear it, but DL has managed to create a combined hub at LGA and JFK with more than 45,000 seats per day on 440 flights that is larger than US' hubs at PHL, DCA, and PHX, AA's hubs at ORD and MIA, and comparable in size to DL's hubs at DTW and MSP, and smaller than ATL, CLT, DFW, EWR, and IAH and all 3 "hubs" at DEN. Given that DL's operations at NYC are much higher local market focused than any larger hub, DL's operations in NYC are likely also far more profitable than most of those other hubs.

When you look at the total size and location of hubs, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to maintain a large domestic presence in a city that is a couple hundred miles north of one of the top 7 largest hubs in the US.

Given what DL has done in NYC combined with its hub locations in DTW and ATL, it makes perfect sense why BOS is now a large focus city for DL.

It also is notable that US operates NO flights from BOS-Florida any longer. In the summer of 2000, US operated 13 flights/day BOS-Florida.

DL's BOS-MCO is the only network carrier non-hub BOS-Florida service.

 

[robbedagain]

its possible that when DL did the BOS-TPA it was most likely at the time when Metro Jet did the same runs both companies utilitizing the 737-200. I dont know if DL continued it with Song afterwards and if they also did so after the low fare airline within airline or what aircraft they used.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, DL has flown BOS-TPA under Song, DL Express (737-200s), and various equipment under mainline. DL's presence in BOS-Florida goes back to Northeast Airlines which DL acquired in the early 70s.
It also is not a given that DL is thru w/ BOS; given their success in LGA and JFK-MIA, BOS-MIA has got to be on their planning radar. DL has flown BOS-LAX at various times in the past and is flying it this summer. Fares are lower than JFK despite the longer distance, driven by B6's presence but BOS-LAX is a key market that both AA and UA fly. DL was operating a 767-300 on BOS-LAX on 9/11.

 

[robbedagain]

763 not the 762? i knew that both aa n ua used 762s on that day. does any other air carrier do bos to tpa besides b6 id imagine that bos mco would be a huge popular run too

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, DL was operating a 767-300 BOS-LAX on 9/11... diverted to CLE, IIRC, in the confusion as to what flights were impacted.

No other carrier operates BOS-TPA besides B6. NK is also in BOS-FLL and FL is also in BOS-MCO.

 

[737823]

yes, DL has flown BOS-TPA under Song, DL Express (737-200s), and various equipment under mainline. DL's presence in BOS-Florida goes back to Northeast Airlines which DL acquired in the early 70s.
It also is not a given that DL is thru w/ BOS; given their success in LGA and JFK-MIA, BOS-MIA has got to be on their planning radar. DL has flown BOS-LAX at various times in the past and is flying it this summer. Fares are lower than JFK despite the longer distance, driven by B6's presence but BOS-LAX is a key market that both AA and UA fly. DL was operating a 767-300 on BOS-LAX on 9/11.

DL starting BOS-MIA? Going against AA with 7 daily frequencies, international connecting hub in MIA and strong local preference in the South Florida region? Sure DL has more flights at FLL and PBI but AA is the region's primary carrier. How is DL doing with their single daily 738 to LAX? It wouldn't be bad as a customer who flies this route, AA will lower their fares, possibly add back 763s and a double miles promo but I can't imagine DL would last very long. The MIA-LHR flight barely lasted a year.

Also the BOS-YYZ flights are ending in a few weeks too, no sense flying a crummy CRJ-200 and paying $600+ r/t when you can fly Porter and have a better travel experience to Billy Bishop or Air Canada to Pearson.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for your response, Josh....

all of those reasons existed when DL started LGA-MIA a little over a year ago and yet DL has one-third of the market and gets average fares comparable to AA - and DL continues to add frequencies. Given that the route is almost entirely local traffic for DL (a much higher percentage of local than AA), there is no reason to think that DL couldn't do the same thing in other cities like BOS where it has a similarly strong presence.

The same reasons should have stopped DL in DFW-LGA and LGA-ORD, top markets for AA but DL has also managed to gain 20% market share at average fares comparable to AA.

There is a reason why DL's RASM is increasing higher than others and it is because DL is able to go after corporate traffic and add flights in markets where other carriers have traditionally been strong.

The same principle is clear in the JFK transcons where DL is already the largest carrier by passengers in the local JFK-SFO market and number 2 behind UA WRT revenue and #2 by pax and revenue in JFK-LAX behind AA.

DL has one flight LAX-MIA because that is all they feel they need to have right now; given that DL has 10% of the local market, they might be all they need.

so yes it is very possible that DL could start additional flights from both BOS as well other carrier hubs and strength markets; the evidence is overwhelming that DL has been very successful in growing its presence in key industry markets, even if other network/legacy carriers have been dominant in those markets in the past.

Your point about Bishop is absolutely correct... DL doesn't have to win in every market and YYZ is one where they have not tried to fight it out in the key US NE-YYZ markets. Other carriers including AC have far more at risk by Porter's growth than does DL.

For now, I don't see any other carrier operating BOS-TPA besides B6 and at JUST 3 flights/day, they have probably have as much capacity as they want - and less than what was there when DL and US were both in the market.
LFCs like B6 have their strength markets just like the network carriers do and unless there is a strong reason for either to cross into each other's markets, there is no reason to think that B6 can't have a monopoly on BOS-TPA just like AA has from DFW-TPA.

you might find this article interesting, and timely.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2013/07/29/boston-logan-a-major-international-airport-cannot-just-serve-europe/?partner=yahootix

 

[737823]

Thanks for the link WT, interesting read.

Josh

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

WN does have close to 10 TPA non-stops combined from ..PVD/BDL/MHT !

 

[737823]

Bears,
TPA isn't as large a FL market from BOS as FLL/MIA/PBI or RSW where jetBlue Fenway Park South Red Sox Training facility is. Since entering BOS four years ago WN still hasn't entered any Florida markets, seems they are more interested in picking up business markets and other strong WN stations (BNA, BWI, DEN, MDW, STL, etc).

Josh