pitguy
Veteran
I think it good to see Dr. Bronner fly us, but it would be best if he sees the 'true' airline and not one that is made up to be better than it is.
Bronner Flies
- Thread starter LavMan
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
Bob,
I think I will pretend that my perception of your last sentence above, is not true, and you are not still attacking the union organization. Best example I can share;, "when your unhappy with leadership, such as U mangement, you don't throw away the company or replace the organization, you REPLACE the mangement....
Same with a union.
Get my meaning?
I think I will pretend that my perception of your last sentence above, is not true, and you are not still attacking the union organization. Best example I can share;, "when your unhappy with leadership, such as U mangement, you don't throw away the company or replace the organization, you REPLACE the mangement....
Same with a union.
Get my meaning?
Hello Newman
Senior
- Aug 23, 2002
- 376
- 0
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On 7/25/2003 11:34:59 AM TomBascom wrote:
Look on the bright side -- at least he was flying US Airways!
I was in DCA yesterday -- I was told a story about Dave S. trying to get the gate agent to hold a flight; the gate agent apparently didn't recognize him and gave him "the usual answer"... That taste of "real life" was, IMHO, a good thing he needs more of those -- OTOH I also heard that "the union" caught him trying to "man the kiosk line" and threatened to file a grievance if he didn't get his butt out of there. Which is a pity -- I'd think that the unions should be heavily in favor of the suits getting a taste of reality on a regular basis.
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The Dave story I heard was something like this,On 7/25/2003 11:34:59 AM TomBascom wrote:
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On 7/25/2003 9:23:48 AM LavMan wrote:
On Wednesday Bronner was flying to DCA, the utility foreman told the lead utility for that gate to make sure the plane was cleaned better then usual.
 
What a joke why don't we show Davey what really gets done instead of the dog and pony show management always makes us do when someone importante flies thru.
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On 7/25/2003 9:23:48 AM LavMan wrote:
On Wednesday Bronner was flying to DCA, the utility foreman told the lead utility for that gate to make sure the plane was cleaned better then usual.
 
What a joke why don't we show Davey what really gets done instead of the dog and pony show management always makes us do when someone importante flies thru.
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Look on the bright side -- at least he was flying US Airways!
I was in DCA yesterday -- I was told a story about Dave S. trying to get the gate agent to hold a flight; the gate agent apparently didn't recognize him and gave him "the usual answer"... That taste of "real life" was, IMHO, a good thing he needs more of those -- OTOH I also heard that "the union" caught him trying to "man the kiosk line" and threatened to file a grievance if he didn't get his butt out of there. Which is a pity -- I'd think that the unions should be heavily in favor of the suits getting a taste of reality on a regular basis.
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Dave S. tries to check in at the kiosk going to
NAS and can't understand why it's not working. He
asks an agent for help who apparently didn't recognize him and he's told to get in the line for
agent assistance. Then he's told "sorry we don't have the help we need to man this counter". He ends up calling the CSM to get more agents on the counter. Wether this is true or not, who knows ????
pitguy
Veteran
True or not, it is important for a manager to see reality and not fiction to help them make wise decisions and it would be prudent for us (employees) not to sugar coat their flying experience.
PITbull,I will continue to "attack" an organization that does it's members a huge diservice. I have seen first hand internationl/national unions throw various and sundry locals under the bus for the "greater good" of the whole union. I saw so many jobs leave a community that I sold in that Billy Joel actually wrote a hit song about it (Allentown).
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Billy Joel will be making another song soon the way things are going!
Bob, your analogy doesn’t make sense. Sure unions are not perfect but without them we the working man would be slaughtered! Around here in Pittsburgh I too saw jobs go and go and go in the thousands and it had nothing to do with the unions and everything about our government letting foreign workers take our jobs, which has only accelerated since NAFTA and now G.A.T.T. Corporate lobbyists buy our government officials along with the very livelihoods of the American working people. Every working man needs the unions strength more now than anytime in history to stop this greedy feeding frenzy of corporate America. The way it’s going there will only be the privileged rich and the working poor. If man were perfect, not flawed, then unions would not be necessary, but look around you and see what corporate is doing even with unions, it would be a overnight slaughter of the working man if unions disappeared. Unions put up a shield for the working man against a ruthless corporate America. Also, I guarantee you that if unions disappeared, your mechanics wage you speak of would also disappear along with them overnight.
PITbull
Veteran
Bob,
Fair enough.
But in my heart of heart, I believe your depth of the issue of unions is "shallow" in general and at best. Citing a few instances where unions were not successful in negotiations, is not convincing to this unionist, who organized a hospital of nurses in 1996, who to this day, are so much better off with a contract, then with none. I am sure if you ask the teachers union members if they would rather be working with no contract, then with one, I think they would share my premise. Same with Police officers and state workers. There are more stories of unions who have succeeded in there endeavors overtime than those who have failed in history. The reason there has been a decline in orgnaizing companies is that for the past 20 years the mangement of corporations have been working synergistically with their employees and also with those that are unionized. Those companies that have good and fair mangements don't need a union. For those mangements that are bad, such as those similar to U, will maintain or encounter unionizing efforts.
We are seeing a rapid and drastic "shift" in this balance, and the "tides will turn" with much fervor. We will both be living that process now and in the future.
To imply that union dollars are a waste of members dues, when most of the dues are to negotiate and protect contracts, is not seeing the forest through the trees. That is not just a blanket statement. This protection of contracts is in the legislative arena with lobbying and supoorting labor laws and job protections, to having EAP services to protect those individuals who are having emotional problems when crisises arise in personal, and family that effect job performance, to safety issues. And keeping staff attorneys on the International level is NOT cheap. Presently we have a Harvard Grad that has joined our staff on the International level.
I don't think I will ever be able to convince you.
PS. FYI: It was the collective union leadership that went to the "Hill" to lobby on behalf of U for the ATSB loan...or does that count for not?
Fair enough.
But in my heart of heart, I believe your depth of the issue of unions is "shallow" in general and at best. Citing a few instances where unions were not successful in negotiations, is not convincing to this unionist, who organized a hospital of nurses in 1996, who to this day, are so much better off with a contract, then with none. I am sure if you ask the teachers union members if they would rather be working with no contract, then with one, I think they would share my premise. Same with Police officers and state workers. There are more stories of unions who have succeeded in there endeavors overtime than those who have failed in history. The reason there has been a decline in orgnaizing companies is that for the past 20 years the mangement of corporations have been working synergistically with their employees and also with those that are unionized. Those companies that have good and fair mangements don't need a union. For those mangements that are bad, such as those similar to U, will maintain or encounter unionizing efforts.
We are seeing a rapid and drastic "shift" in this balance, and the "tides will turn" with much fervor. We will both be living that process now and in the future.
To imply that union dollars are a waste of members dues, when most of the dues are to negotiate and protect contracts, is not seeing the forest through the trees. That is not just a blanket statement. This protection of contracts is in the legislative arena with lobbying and supoorting labor laws and job protections, to having EAP services to protect those individuals who are having emotional problems when crisises arise in personal, and family that effect job performance, to safety issues. And keeping staff attorneys on the International level is NOT cheap. Presently we have a Harvard Grad that has joined our staff on the International level.
I don't think I will ever be able to convince you.
PS. FYI: It was the collective union leadership that went to the "Hill" to lobby on behalf of U for the ATSB loan...or does that count for not?
Pinelybob,
Just a little up date for you. Mack Trucks WAS owened by the French, It is now owned by the Sweedes. Reanult sold the company to Volvo 2 or 3 years ago. Now volvo Trucks (seperate from Volvo Cars) ownes much of the HD truck market in this country aftern buying GMC HD trucks about 10 years ago. Also Freightliner is owned by Daimler Chrysler. So much for what you may think of an American Industry.
Just a little up date for you. Mack Trucks WAS owened by the French, It is now owned by the Sweedes. Reanult sold the company to Volvo 2 or 3 years ago. Now volvo Trucks (seperate from Volvo Cars) ownes much of the HD truck market in this country aftern buying GMC HD trucks about 10 years ago. Also Freightliner is owned by Daimler Chrysler. So much for what you may think of an American Industry.
Seatacus
Veteran
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On 7/25/2003 1:24:20 PM LavMan wrote:
That makes no sense Tom, I could care less if he flew us or not, it did not bring revenue to US, actually costs us to fly him and his cronies around the system.
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Corporate people flying around positive space in First Class happens more than I would like. And this includes retired executives and their families. They are taking away good seats from paying passengers.On 7/25/2003 1:24:20 PM LavMan wrote:
That makes no sense Tom, I could care less if he flew us or not, it did not bring revenue to US, actually costs us to fly him and his cronies around the system.
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