Bye Bye American Pie

[delldude]

So you are saying their economy was stagnant from 2000-2008? And you say I am clueless?

Oh my God....i wasn't aware their economy started in 2000.........My bad.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Oh yea. Over 2 trillion of that is due to two unless wars. Just saying.

So who is the Commander In Chief? Jeez, I forget!! Is it Trump? Bush? Guido the Italian mouse? Joe Biden? Ron Paul? I don't recall? I do seem to remember that someone argued that the POTUS had absolute power as Commander in Chief to enter Libya & Yemen. So if that's correct then would that same POTUS have the absolute authority to Leave Afghanistan and Irag thereby saving 2 Trillion? Wasn't that someones campaign promise?

I'm so confused

 

[Ms Tree]

Never said it did. You are the one whonimplied that China's grorh exceeding ours was rhe fault of the POTUS.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Never said it did. You are the one whonimplied that China's grorh exceeding ours was rhe fault of the POTUS.

We have a growth rate of 1.8 percent with the Hero of the Stupids reign of tyranny. 2000 through 2008 the average rate of growth was double what is was this last past quarter and this doesn't count the shrinkage in 2009. His Printing press money and deficit spending has brought us to the brink of being Greece by the end of his second term and his staff of not wits is floating the idea of ANOTHER soon to fail stimulus package we can't pay for.

He's a scar upon the land

 

[Ms Tree]

Never mind. It was Sparrow not you. Sorry.

 

[Ms Tree]

And had he not I think we would have been worse off.

 

[Dog Wonder]

No, they're coming for you.

I'm not looking over my shoulder.

 

[SparrowHawk]

And had he not I think we would have been worse off.

By being 5 Trillion less in debt would argue against that. I've been doing some reading and the general consensus is that once the Debt to GDP ration rises above 90% that's when things begin to unravel if something isn't done and done quickly, Over 100% which is were we will likely be Q1 2012 then things have the potential to get ugly fast.

We don't need a balanced budget in 2015, we need one NOW as in right now and taxing the so called rich isn't the answer. They've tried that is several states and the end result was a decrease in net revenue as the wealth moved to another state. IIRC it was MD that actually raised taxes on the wealthy only to have 43% of those taxed merely move across the river to VA

I saw an interesting figure on job creation. The Empty Suit claims to have created or helped save 2 million jobs. When you divide the money spent on this effort it "Cost" the Federal Government $399,000 per job. Not a very good cost/benefit.

Let's suppose I make $300K from my small (2,4 million) Printing business which is successful and profitable despite the recession. Along comes the Empty Suit and his Gun Thugs aka IRS and they decide because I'm "rich" I need to pony up another $30k in taxes. OK, I have the money no big deal. I'll just delay buying that new digital press for $150K. The Salesman doesn't make a $10K commission, the dealer who would have sold it lost $150K in revenue and because his business has slowed lays off a tech saving $35,000 + another $15k in benefits PLUS now the government is now obligated to pay about $40,000 in unemployment income. Go for it!!! Tax the rich yeah that's the ticket. Bumb D*stards

 

[Ms Tree]

You are assuming the rich are paying the tax rate that is currently in place. According to Warren Buffet that seems not to be the case. Was ig GE that just got a tax refund with 12.billion in profits?

Id settle for people and corporations just paying the taxes that are due, see where we are at Nd then talk about reducing them were needed. Currently the tax structure with all the loop holes is a joke. The middle class is taking a bath and the rich/corporations are laughing on their way to their villas.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You are assuming the rich are paying the tax rate that is currently in place. According to Warren Buffet that seems not to be the case. Was ig GE that just got a tax refund with 12.billion in profits?

Id settle for people and corporations just paying the taxes that are due, see where we are at Nd then talk about reducing them were needed. Currently the tax structure with all the loop holes is a joke. The middle class is taking a bath and the rich/corporations are laughing on their way to their villas.

The point is/was/remains that taxing the rich doesn't work and that's exactly what the Empty Suit wants to do.

 

[Ms Tree]

Point is they are not paying the taxes for the bracket they are in so how would you know?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Point is they are not paying the taxes for the bracket they are in so how would you know?

Prove your statement. Something like the top 4% pay 50% of the Federal income Tax IIRC. So I'd say they are paying their fair share this very minute.
If the Federal Government lived within the confines of the COTUS we would not have a financial crisis.

 

[xUT]

Prove your statement. Something like the top 4% pay 50% of the Federal income Tax IIRC. So I'd say they are paying their fair share this very minute.
If the Federal Government lived within the confines of the COTUS we would not have a financial crisis.

The Wealth Distribution

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.

 

[Ms Tree]

Prove your statement. Something like the top 4% pay 50% of the Federal income Tax IIRC. So I'd say they are paying their fair share this very minute.
If the Federal Government lived within the confines of the COTUS we would not have a financial crisis.

I am so tired of hearing that tired old excuse.

How much they pay of the whole is not relevant. As XUT. pointed out they control a clear majority of tbe wealth. What they pay as a percentage of their wealth is the point. Buffet has state several time that due to all the loop holes in the tax structure that favor the rich, he pays less in taxes (as a percentage) than his secretary. The fact that he pays more in taxes as an over all amount is relevant.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I am so tired of hearing that tired old excuse.

Want a pillow and a blankie?

How much they pay of the whole is not relevant. As XUT. pointed out they control a clear majority of tbe wealth. What they pay as a percentage of their wealth is the point. Buffet has state several time that due to all the loop holes in the tax structure that favor the rich, he pays less in taxes (as a percentage) than his secretary. The fact that he pays more in taxes as an over all amount is relevant.

Warren Buffet is not infallible! he did buy several million shares of US Airways stock and lost his shirt. Now if you want to make the argument that the tax code it between half and three quarters of the problem then you are preaching to choir, save for the fact we shouldn't even be having the conversation if the Feds followed the COTUS there would be no need for the Federal Income tax. This whole problem started with Woodrow Wilson and the creation of the Fed and passing the personal income tax. As much as I despise Obama, the truth is that Obama is merely the extension of the events of 1913. If you start foraging through the Internet you'll find many articles on the Great Depression and virtually all place blame on the Federal Reserves Monetary policy. What varies is WHY the Fed is to blame. Yet all reach the conclusion that the Fed bears a lot of the blame.

Next, somewhere along the way the Government figured out that it could use the tax code for social engineering, these misguided efforts are what caused the never ending stream of loopholes, special incentives, credits and notes from Mom to the point where the whole thing is an abortion of revolting regulatory purgatory enforced by the jack booted thugs of the IRS.

First step to a robust growing economy is some financial triage. We need to stop the bleeding NOW! Balance the next budget as a sign of good faith to the world wide financial community that we will be putting our fiscal house in order and sooner rather than later. Next Balanced Budget Amendment followed by a plan to pay off the National debt to a point where the GDP to Debt ratio is in the 50% range plus or minus 2 percent. Once we get to that point we can tackle the tax code reforming it from top to bottom. To the point where everyone can file a return on a single sheet of paper using both sides.