Callsign change date near

[BottomFeeder]

Now keep in mind Pi none of us have ever lied to your pilots nor have ever made any attempts to harm your group in any way however the same can not be said of your mec towards us...

That is 100% BS. At the hearing in DC your man was asked by the EC if you were informed of the bankruptcy plan that AWA had if the merger failed. He tried to side step and finally said that he wished he had a nickel for every time has was told that by management.

You guys knew that you were in trouble and yet you denied it and held it under raps. Then you had the nerve to tell all that you saved us. When in fact you were in deep sh1t yourself.

You keep feeding your side the BS and they are swallowing it hook line and sinker.

Now who is the sheep?

 

[Pi brat]

I have no doubt in my mind that the number of east pilots wanting to go west would be more than double or maybe even triple the number of west willing to go east. Keep in mind that over 90% of our pilots live in the west and have no desire to move and or commute east. Now we can not run the mock bid in the east as we do not have control of the east bid system. We have run mock bids for years and they are really great at predicting who is willing to do what. It may not be a bad idea for you guys to run one of these if your system can do it.

I look at the poor souls that I have taken from SAN to PHL and back and wonder just how they do it!!! They had to in order to stay employed with AAA. They were most likely the PSA people that were based in the west only to wake up one day and find that they had to commute or move to the east coast. I bet many thought that it would only be a short term thing and the next thing they knew 15 yrs went by and they are losing a day each way to stay with the company. Now I won't lie, I would love to see our guys that live in BOS, PHL, FLL, TPA and Maine to able to drive to work or commute an hr or so. I have no problem with those east pilots that live in SAN, LAX, PHX, BUR etc. to be able to do the same thing.

None of us employees asked for this marriage Pi the money people forced that on us. We could have at least been civil but that went out the window with the East MEC's continued unprofessional behavior. Now I could spend a whole day going over what they have done that you and most east pilots have absolutly know idea even took place. They did us wrong Pi on many levels and most of the crap came from C41. One day Pi I'll have to give you the full brief...

AWA,

Piedmont used to do practice bids, US Air stopped them.

I don't know that I can accept that it was the east MEC that caused this to be uncivil. I'm sure you go on the national ALPA board. Wouldn't you say that negative AWA posters out number US by a large margin? I don't see trying to protect your interests as being unprofessional. Most guys here truly do not believe ALPA merger policy was followed and Nic decided to be the punisher. I truly believe that if AWA was stapled,you would feel the same way and would be following the same road. To many guys here the award was as bad as being stapled.

I have been in your shoes, I don't think you have not been in mine. During the shuttle integration I felt we should have given the shuttle guys their EA DOH. Many of my coworkers disagreed because the shuttle guys resigned from EA to go to Trump. A lot of guys that used to fly F/O for me on the F-28 were really adamant about them not getting EA DOH, so I thought maybe I was missing something. Nothing I could do about it and it was up to old ST. Nic. When the list came out, one of the pilots slotted into my class was hired by EA when I was 7 years old. I thought, "Man, I wonder how he feels?". Now some here know how he feels. A year or so later I ended up in 76 school with a shuttle guy and we talked about things. I didn't try to justify the award, I just said I can understand how you feel.

I'll buy the beer for the brief.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

No sheep here, but really, what is so special or meaningful about whether or not AWA would have filed BK absent the merger?

That is 100% BS. At the hearing in DC your man was asked by the EC if you were informed of the bankruptcy plan that AWA had if the merger failed. He tried to side step and finally said that he wished he had a nickel for every time has was told that by management.

You guys knew that you were in trouble and yet you denied it and held it under raps. Then you had the nerve to tell all that you saved us. When in fact you were in deep sh1t yourself.

You keep feeding your side the BS and they are swallowing it hook line and sinker.

Now who is the sheep?

 

[Pi brat]

No sheep here, but really, what is so special or meaningful about whether or not AWA would have filed BK absent the merger?

Cactus many AWA pilots paint the picture of premerger as everything was coming up roses. Buying airplanes, upgrading etc. Many guys say this merger sucks, it has cost me my upgrade. This is directly contrary to what Doug said was going on. The last big move I remember by AWA was jumping into the transcon stuff. I believe you guys got your rear ends handed to you. It all goes to career expectations, and they weren't as rosey as your merger committee said.

 

[AWA320]

That is 100% BS. At the hearing in DC your man was asked by the EC if you were informed of the bankruptcy plan that AWA had if the merger failed. He tried to side step and finally said that he wished he had a nickel for every time has was told that by management.

You guys knew that you were in trouble and yet you denied it and held it under raps. Then you had the nerve to tell all that you saved us. When in fact you were in deep sh1t yourself.

You keep feeding your side the BS and they are swallowing it hook line and sinker.

Now who is the sheep?

Bottom,

We were coming off of the second stright profitable quarter so I don't see a BK within months of that however for the purpose of this debate I will run with it. I had not heard a thing about BK and I would have if it were coming down the pipe!!! Lets say that what you claim is true and that a BK was on the way, Scott Kirby had said publically that without this marriage USAirways was going to be liquidated within weeks!! There is an huge difference between being in BK and being liquidated.

Now again we never held anything under wraps or lied to our pilots thus we never lied to the east pilots or your mec, you can not make that same claim...

 

[AWA320]

Cactus many AWA pilots paint the picture of premerger as everything was coming up roses. Buying airplanes, upgrading etc. Many guys say this merger sucks, it has cost me my upgrade. This is directly contrary to what Doug said was going on. The last big move I remember by AWA was jumping into the transcon stuff. I believe you guys got your rear ends handed to you. It all goes to career expectations, and they weren't as rosey as your merger committee said.

One second there Pi as pre merger we were doing things. Keep in mind that we were running classes of 30 or more a month and even had people in the pool when this merger was announced. We were taking delivery of new airbus aircraft and had just jumped into the transcon market but we had to stop that once the merger started, why I have no idea as the planes were often full. Lots of things had to be said and done once this thing got started.

We feel as though we traded our attrition and growth for the sake of this merger and based on what was happening prior to the announcement we really had no reason to believe otherwise. I hear many speak of a BK for AWA however people keep forgetting that we had made a bid for ATA just one yr prior!!! We posted two back to back profits and were attempting to purchase ATA so I can't see that bankruptcy.

I was going to answer your post above however when you offered to buy the beer I figure why waste the stories here when I can get free beer telling you in person!

 

[Pi brat]

One second there Pi as pre merger we were doing things. Keep in mind that we were running classes of 30 or more a month and even had people in the pool when this merger was announced. We were taking delivery of new airbus aircraft and had just jumped into the transcon market but we had to stop that once the merger started, why I have no idea as the planes were often full. Lots of things had to be said and done once this thing got started.

We feel as though we traded our attrition and growth for the sake of this merger and based on what was happening prior to the announcement we really had no reason to believe otherwise. I hear many speak of a BK for AWA however people keep forgetting that we had made a bid for ATA just one yr prior!!! We posted two back to back profits and were attempting to purchase ATA so I can't see that bankruptcy.

I was going to answer your post above however when you offered to buy the beer I figure why waste the stories here when I can get free beer telling you in person!

You can go ahead and tell me the stories, I'll still buy they beer. I have heard someone on here, may not have been you, say that we were promised we would get DOH. I can tell you we weren't.

On the crew news sessions on the hub, both Scott and Doug tell two different pilots , in PHX, that you would most likely have entered chp11, returned A/C, and furloughed pilots. On the one with Scott,you can't see the pilot, but he must of given Scott a roll of the eyes, because Scott dressed him down. He said I can tell you don't agree, but trust me I was there looking at the numbers everday. He also said you are much better off with the merger than without. I can go back and find the time and date if you want me to.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I can honestly say if that was the case, none of the AWA employees had a clue nor did the financial community through any SEC filings. We reported profits through the 1st quarter 2006, which refutes any near term BK. However, Doug and Scott may well have been planning a strategic BK filling to shed debt and emerge a leaner airline to compete with the legacy carriers who were also reducing costs in BK. Who knows...woulda coulda shoulda. It is very strange though that one day not a word about AWAs financial squeeze and the next day following the merger were suddenly close to BK??? Makes you wonder.

You can go ahead and tell me the stories, I'll still buy they beer. I have heard someone on here, may not have been you, say that we were promised we would get DOH. I can tell you we weren't.

On the crew news sessions on the hub, both Scott and Doug tell two different pilots , in PHX, that you would most likely have entered chp11, returned A/C, and furloughed pilots. On the one with Scott,you can't see the pilot, but he must of given Scott a roll of the eyes, because Scott dressed him down. He said I can tell you don't agree, but trust me I was there looking at the numbers everday. He also said you are much better off with the merger than without. I can go back and find the time and date if you want me to.

 

[Dog Wonder]

well, the FAA office in Pittsburgh deals with the east operation . .the FAA office in PHX deals iwth the west operation.

The FAA Office in Pittsburgh deals with single certificate issues.

 

[Pi brat]

I can honestly say if that was the case, none of the AWA employees had a clue nor did the financial community through any SEC filings. We reported profits through the 1st quarter 2006, which refutes any near term BK. However, Doug and Scott may well have been planning a strategic BK filling to shed debt and emerge a leaner airline to compete with the legacy carriers who were also reducing costs in BK. Who knows...woulda coulda shoulda. It is very strange though that one day not a word about AWAs financial squeeze and the next day following the merger were suddenly close to BK??? Makes you wonder.

You know it really doesn't matter. As Mr. Stephen Wolf once said " We are where we are". This was really one of the most pure mergers in the business. Most have been buy outs. I wish we could work something out. I think this thing had a good chance of doing well, but........................

 

[AWA320]

I can honestly say if that was the case, none of the AWA employees had a clue nor did the financial community through any SEC filings. We reported profits through the 1st quarter 2006, which refutes any near term BK. However, Doug and Scott may well have been planning a strategic BK filling to shed debt and emerge a leaner airline to compete with the legacy carriers who were also reducing costs in BK. Who knows...woulda coulda shoulda. It is very strange though that one day not a word about AWAs financial squeeze and the next day following the merger were suddenly close to BK??? Makes you wonder.

Well this is what I mean. I agree with you 100% If that was their plan they certainly said nothing to anyone about it. Now what I think happend is they made statement to the financial community that AWA needed the merger or it would file BK. I think these people would do and say anything to make the deal happen. Keep in mind all that they got millions just for making it all happen while we got clean up detail!!! We had a modest sum of money in the bank at the time of this announement so I just can not see this BK people are talking about.

 

[AWA320]

You know it really doesn't matter. As Mr. Stephen Wolf once said " We are where we are". This was really one of the most pure mergers in the business. Most have been buy outs. I wish we could work something out. I think this thing had a good chance of doing well, but........................

It still can but we need to really focus our energy on a great contract. It does the east no good to stay under LOA 93 and does the west no good to stay in contract 04. The only one's hurt in all htis is us pilots.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Well this is what I mean. I agree with you 100% If that was their plan they certainly said nothing to anyone about it. Now what I think happend is they made statement to the financial community that AWA needed the merger or it would file BK. I think these people would do and say anything to make the deal happen. Keep in mind all that they got millions just for making it all happen while we got clean up detail!!! We had a modest sum of money in the bank at the time of this announement so I just can not see this BK people are talking about.

It makes perfect sense that nothing was said to anyone about plans for filing bankruptcy. Once that news gets out, people book away from the airline and it just makes things worse. Some financial analyst testified that AWA actually had too little cash to file Chapter 11. It takes about a half-billion in the bank to file Chapter 11, and AWA had gone down to about $300 million at one point. That means that, absent the merger, if they had filed it would likely have been Chapter 7. But, by the time Doogie got the bank account down to $300 million, the merger looked like it had the green light so he took the small risk and kept flying betting that the infusion of cash was at hand. And he won the wager.

It still can but we need to really focus our energy on a great contract. It does the east no good to stay under LOA 93 and does the west no good to stay in contract 04. The only one's hurt in all htis is us pilots.

You are absolutely right. The east pilots are hurting themselves by their stance. But the alternative is to do even more serious injury to ourselves for the long-term. Whether we blame ALPA. Nicolau, or even ourselves, it doesn't change the fact that (as Rakesh Gangwal once told us): "We are where we are." Okay, I concede then that we've painted ourselves into a corner. But that obviously now limits our choices to doing the least amount of damage to our own situation.

 

[BottomFeeder]

It still can but we need to really focus our energy on a great contract. It does the east no good to stay under LOA 93 and does the west no good to stay in contract 04. The only one's hurt in all htis is us pilots.

The only one's hurt are the East F/O upgrades and the East C/O looking at upgrade to widebody.


If there is a chance of the Nic award .... there is no chance.

 

[AstroLounge]

The call sign is not changing.

This is not an opinion, it is a fact. Directly from the VP of Operations.

pilot

They need to eliminate the USAIR and Cactus callsigns so as NOT to offend/allienate anyone....let's call it what IT IS.........."CIRCUS". Pilot/to ATC....."Circus167 coming to town, Standby for AllCall".