Can anything Stop JG ?

[700UW]

The International is the one who created the idea of the seperate districts, and the seperate districts does not seperate the locals, I liked the idea of US Mechs and Related AGCs representing the M&R and not a fleet person or vice versa. The reps should be off the contract and property they represent.

The IAM M&R contract was amendable in 1995 and was not settled till 1999, the dates could become amendable together without having fleet swinging in the wind waiting. The company did not want to give you a fair agreement and stalled.

The strength in numbers does work, one contract time at TWA the company was offering the ramp, mechanic and related a sweetheart deal while screwing reservations and customer service. The three seperate negotiating committees met nightly and the other two groups would not accept thier offers till the company gave the agents a reasonable offer.

Look at NW, amfa only represents one group at NW and their strike did not cause the company to shutdown at all. If the IAM struck at NW, there would be no reservations, gate and ticket agents and no rampers or stock clerks, harder to replace three or four groups of workers then one.

M&R had a working relationship since 1949 with the company to achieve time off, and being a former prinicipal officer I can tell you I had a hard time getting time off, it was not a carte blanche policy. It was up to local management and when I went to stores I had to work in my time off of UB around other people's vacations, days off and comp days. And when I was working for the District and was assigned to another airline's negotations I had to get the GC and the DL President to step in and get me time off, I have seen many mechanic and related's time off for UB denied. The only time my UB time was granted without hesitation was for the bankruptcy negotiations.

You have to ask Randy Canale why he did not support you, and in CLT the Fleet Committee is basically full time and rarely work the ramp.

You can't solve the problems until a cure of membership apathy is found, and that problem has not been solved in any union anywhere.

If you have been to the Harbor you know during all the leadership classes members are charged with the trying to stop the membership apathy, and some of the students come up with good ideas, but you cant force a member to get involved, there is a big difference in being a union member then being a member of a union.

 

[Bear96]

And yet another thread devolves into an "IAM Good" / "IAM Bad" squabble.

 

[700UW]

Don't like it don't read it, plain and simple.

 

[700AW]

as quoted by 700uw
"diservice in how long it took to get a first CBA, but it takes two to tango and the company was in no hurry and the RLA supports that."

you finally answered the q's you have been asking of the IBT about our cba.. you said it, it takes two to tango, we have negotiated with the company about the outsourcing, pay parity etc.. but if they ain't going to budge then what... but i am glad to see that you have known all along the answer to what you have been asking

 

[Dilligas]

Can somone tell me just how airlines got included in the RLA?

To me this is the single biggest problem Labor in Aviation faces. Years to get contracts done it's a disgrace.

Here's a bit of background:

RLA Info

I believe it was originally due to the importance of the railroads to interstate commerce and the need to avoid frequent disruption, and when another mass transit option came on the scene, it was lumped in with the railroad.

 

[700UW]

The RLA was set up to protect interstate commerce and prevent the distruption of goods flowing, not to protect any worker.

 

[Bear96]

Don't like it don't read it, plain and simple.

That's hardly the point.

 

[700UW]

To keep business flowing and open, not to protect workers.

 

[Bear96]

OK then genuis what is the point!

The point, Einstein, is just how many threads do the "IAM is perfect and represents all that is virtuous in the world" and the "IAM is pure evil" posters need to post the same thing over and over and over again? Why does every thread have to morph into that?

Even if you try to avoid the drivel by doing as 700 advises and skipping the threads that obviously have to do with "the IAM is good/bad" topic, you still can't avoid it. A thread that may at first appear to have nothing to do with the IAM or which union representing ground workers or mechanics is worse than another union, based on the thread title and first couple of posts, and so you uniwittingly start reading, will still somehow manage to denigrate into -- surprise! gotcha! -- the old "IAM Good" / "IAM Bad" debate (and yet not really add anything to the debate).

Just like this thread did. See?

 

[700UW]

Talking about any unions, it past, present its good things and bad things is very relevant to dealing with JG. Just my opinion.

Bob,

All airline unions have tried for years to modify the RLA in order to level the playing field, big business would have no part of it.

The IAM even formed a panel with members of other unions and some airline executives to foster change but the elephant controlled party would have nothing to do with it.

If you think it is bad with the airlines, it is way worse with the railroads, they go years without a new CBA and Congress usually legistlates their CBA.

 

[Bear96]

So I'm wanting to know what the justification (not the the Gov needs any) for including Aviation under such a law

(At the risk of being accused of "stating the obvious," because I don't know how much PB knows about the topic. . .) I think Dilligas got the essence of it. Most labor disputes are local in nature (i.e., a strike at the local steel mill). But large railroads, because they cover large parts of the country, can cause nationwide disruptions, so Congress purposefully created a way to both resolve disputes and slow the process down to avoid disruption, or at least delay it, on such a large scale.

When the airlines came along, the same reasoning applied -- airlines had national reach and so could impact large parts of the country. Therefore the reasoning seemed to be it is more appropriate to lump them in with railroads under the RLA instead of industries with localized work sites under the NLRA.

One small clarification to what Dilligas said: It is not quite accurate to use the term "mass transit" when referring to covered entities under the RLA. In fact, mass transit systems (such as local subway and commuter rail systems) are NOT covered by the RLA. The reasoning is consistent -- those local systems don't have the capability of causing disruption on a national scale.

Now, the question of whether the RLA or NLRA is better for employees is an interesting debate. Certainly the slowed-down process under the RLA can be abused by management. But, as the article Dilligas linked points out, the RLA actually provides MORE protection for employees in some areas than the NLRA does. For example, under the NLRA, intermittent work stoppages are forbidden, and so a CHAOS-type strategy would clearly be illegal under the NLRA.

Well being a firm believer in freedom & liberty I see no harm in the ongoing seemingly endless often mindless debate.

Ah, I see.

So if one doesn't like endless and mindless debate, one must be opposed to "freedom & liberty."

Got it.

 

[awausairtech]

as quoted by 700uw
"diservice in how long it took to get a first CBA, but it takes two to tango and the company was in no hurry and the RLA supports that."

you finally answered the q's you have been asking of the IBT about our cba.. you said it, it takes two to tango, we have negotiated with the company about the outsourcing, pay parity etc.. but if they ain't going to budge then what... but i am glad to see that you have known all along the answer to what you have been asking

So We See 700uw Can Use COMMON SENSE!
I Just Fell Off My Chair!!
AND JUST WAIT TILL WE START TALKS AGAIN WITH DP AND THE BOYS. WE WILL GET ANOTHER DISSERVICE AND STALL AS THEY DID WITH THE LAST IBT CBA AND IF THE IAM WINS YOU CAN BET THERE WILL BE A LONG LONG STALL TO KEEP THAT CONTRACT IN AS IT IS.
LOOK A PAY FREEZE TILL 2009 AND TALKS TILL 2012 OR 2013 DP AND THE BOYS ARE WARTERING AT THE MOUTH.
THE IBT Contract Is AMENDABLE At This Time, 5 or 6 YEARS is a long Pay Freeze! 🙄
PineyBob:
As you can see PineyBob this is one of the things we need to fix before we go up against the COMPANY! (IBT or IAM)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Can somone tell me just how airlines got included in the RLA?

Bob, 700UW pretty much gave the "in a nutshell" answer but I'll elaborate.....

In the latter part of the 1800's and early 1900's, there were a handful of big railroads that provided longer-haul cargo/passenger service. There were also some big strikes that disrupted rail service pretty much nationwide (July 1, 1922 - 400,000 railroad workers go on strike to protest a 12.5% wage cut). And some of these strikes resulted in the President sending in troops which resulted in death/injuries.

Congress, in their "wisdom", decided something needed to be done to protect interstate commerce and passed the RLA - contracts in the rail industry didn't expire (which led to imposed conditions and strikes) but became amendable with a somewhat convoluted process that had to play out before self-help by either side was possible.

Enter the sirlines - by the mid-30's, a few bigger airlines had become somewhat "national" in nature, assuming something of the importance to national commerce that railroads had much earlier. Likewise, a single union (ALPA) was becoming labor's voice in the industry (few if any non-pilot aviation workers were unionized) - as had been the case in the railroads. Congress, wanting to prevent a repeat of railroad history in this increasingly important new transportation sector, placed the airlines under the RLA.

Today, with the relative plethora of "nationwide" airlines and multiple unions representing the workers, it could certainly be argues a strike by a single union at a single carrier would have little effect on interstate commerce (even if that airline stopped operating during the strike). I'll leave settling that argument to those smarter than I.

Jim

 

[hp_fa]

Simply as a point-of-fact, there are two 700's. 700UW and 700AW.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And they will probably never agree......

Jim