catholic church

[Garfield1966]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006...shops-gay_x.htm

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender — only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

Still, under the guidelines, parishes must instruct gays to remain celibate. The bishops are also discouraging gays from making "general public self-disclosures" within their churches about their sexual orientation.

"It is not sufficient for those involved in this ministry to adopt a position of distant neutrality with regard to Church teaching," the bishops stated. Gay outreach must include teaching that is "welcoming yet challenging, loving but firm in the truth," they said.


So, in a nut shell, you can think you’re gay just don’t do gay stuff. Someone has to explain to me why the church even bothers. To me this is the equivalent of the KKK saying that hey, it’s ok to be jewish just don’t do jewish stuff, we think being jewish is wrong and we will do every thing we can to help you not be jewish. Why would a jew want to join them? Why would a gay be a member of an organization that condemns them?


And in other news.

On another matter Tuesday, bishops overwhelmingly adopted a statement encouraging Catholics to obey the church's ban on artificial contraception.


Yea, that will work. Welcome to the 14th century. And they wonder why their flock is shrinking. IT’S THE RULES STUPID!!!!!

 

[Leto2]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006...shops-gay_x.htm

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender — only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

Still, under the guidelines, parishes must instruct gays to remain celibate. The bishops are also discouraging gays from making "general public self-disclosures" within their churches about their sexual orientation.

"It is not sufficient for those involved in this ministry to adopt a position of distant neutrality with regard to Church teaching," the bishops stated. Gay outreach must include teaching that is "welcoming yet challenging, loving but firm in the truth," they said.
So, in a nut shell, you can think you’re gay just don’t do gay stuff. Someone has to explain to me why the church even bothers. To me this is the equivalent of the KKK saying that hey, it’s ok to be jewish just don’t do jewish stuff, we think being jewish is wrong and we will do every thing we can to help you not be jewish. Why would a jew want to join them? Why would a gay be a member of an organization that condemns them?
And in other news.

On another matter Tuesday, bishops overwhelmingly adopted a statement encouraging Catholics to obey the church's ban on artificial contraception.
Yea, that will work. Welcome to the 14th century. And they wonder why their flock is shrinking. IT’S THE RULES STUPID!!!!!

If people aren't going to church because they don't like the rules, then I think that's the peoples' problem and not the church's problem. I disagree with a lot of the stuff the Catholics do, but I commend them for sticking to their guns on these issues. I believe that now more than ever people need rules and standards--in today's world they won't get them anywhere but at church (or at home if they have decent parents, but even that is no longer dependable).
Why should a Church, like the Catholics, change their standards? God doesn't change, so neither should His laws. That's why the Catholics bother with stuff like this.

I agree with the Catholics that "it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender — only to act on those feelings". To me it's like any other temptation, whether it's adultry, fornication, stealing, lying, etc. We all have urges to sin, but if we withstand them, then we have won. (So yes, I do believe that it's a sin to act on same-gender attraction.)
Each person has the sins which tempt them most. Perhaps a "gay" person is "born" with that temptation, but that doesn't make it right, no more so than a person "born" with the temptation to steal makes stealing right.

If I believe in God and in the Bible, then I should realize that it's a sin to act on homosexual thoughts. Whether or not I'm tempted by this particular sin doesn't change the reality of God, nor does it change the reality of His laws.

 

[rjh]

Why should a Church, like the Catholics, change their standards? God doesn't change, so neither should His laws. That's why the Catholics bother with stuff like this.

God's laws may not change, but may people tend to only pay attention to the ones they want to. Slavery is endorsed in the bible, and working on the sabbath is forbidden by the bible. It's also considered adultery if a woman gets divorced and remarries. Why are those people not going to hell??

 

[Garfield1966]

I agree in so far that any religion to hold the line to their values. Those values were set along time ago and are not subject to change at the whim of man to make it more convenient. My point was that 1. I really do not understand why so many people are religious as religion condemns quite a large portion of them (or so it seems and 2. The flock is shrinking because the message is antiquated. This is an organization that is stuck in the time when it was believe life could spontaneously be created (I’m talking about maggots growing on meat), the earth was thought to be flat and the center of the universe, solar eclipses were thought to be magic, people were burned at the stake for being witches, pigs were thought to be dirty animals just because they wallow in mud and the list goes on. Why the horse and buggy has disappeared and religion continues to have it’s followers is something that I just cannot comprehend.

I guess some people need to be rewarded or have incentive just to live their life. If you do such and such in life, you will be rewarded after ward. Why not just live life just for the sake of living. To me that is the true test of selflessness. To be able to do something just because it is the right thing to do. To make a donation with out anyone knowing or recognizing it. To do a good deed that no one knows of. To treat your fellow man humanly because it is the right thing to do, because it is the way you wish to be treated.

 

[delldude]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006...shops-gay_x.htm

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender — only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

Still, under the guidelines, parishes must instruct gays to remain celibate. The bishops are also discouraging gays from making "general public self-disclosures" within their churches about their sexual orientation.

"It is not sufficient for those involved in this ministry to adopt a position of distant neutrality with regard to Church teaching," the bishops stated. Gay outreach must include teaching that is "welcoming yet challenging, loving but firm in the truth," they said.
So, in a nut shell, you can think you’re gay just don’t do gay stuff. Someone has to explain to me why the church even bothers. To me this is the equivalent of the KKK saying that hey, it’s ok to be jewish just don’t do jewish stuff, we think being jewish is wrong and we will do every thing we can to help you not be jewish. Why would a jew want to join them? Why would a gay be a member of an organization that condemns them?
And in other news.

On another matter Tuesday, bishops overwhelmingly adopted a statement encouraging Catholics to obey the church's ban on artificial contraception.
Yea, that will work. Welcome to the 14th century. And they wonder why their flock is shrinking. IT’S THE RULES STUPID!!!!!

Any rulings on Priests and little boys??

 

[Garfield1966]

As far as can tell, the act it’s self is a bad thing but covering it up (see Cardinal Law) is OK.

 

[KCFlyer]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006...shops-gay_x.htm

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender — only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

As a Catholic - which is better...to be a churgh that says it's not a sin to be attracted to someon of the same gender, or a church that sends you straight to hell for the same thing?

I know you are pretty much agnostic/athiest...that's cool. But your posts border on trashing the Catholic church. The church members are strong, I recall being treated right up there with Blacks and Jews in the esteemed eyes of the KKK. I'll be the first to admit that there are many things with my church that I don't agree with. Birth control, married priests, women priests...I can take issue with much of their stance on that. I am critical of the church because of their dictating "sinful" votes based on a candidates stance on abortion, and their eagerness to overlook their "pro life" stance to claim it's mortal sin to vote for someone who supports abortion rights, but it's not a sin to vote for someone who is pro death penalty and pro "unjust" war. I thought that "pro life" meant that ALL life was sacred. If they want to call it a sin to vote for a pro abortion candidate, then they need to call it a sin to vote for a pro death penalty...pro war candidate. That's just me. And I'm not alone in that.

But despite that, it is still MY church, and it is a church that recognizes that all of us are sinners and teaches forgiveness. In that respect, it is a very welcoming church. Some folks think the church is unerring. That should be fine with others. Some think Catholics worship a bunch of false idols and that the pope is the antichrist. They're entitled to that view. Some folks view all religions as a farce - that's there right. But bear in mind that your ridicule or anger or disgust at my church comes accross to me anyways on a par with the posts of 700 who condemns everyone to hell. What's wrong with keeping some beliefs on religion or churchs to yourself? Was this threas really necessary?

 

[Leto2]

I'll be the first to admit that there are many things with my church that I don't agree with. Birth control, married priests, women priests...I can take issue with much of their stance on that.

I don't understand this one bit. How can you disagree with some of the things your church teaches? Are they God's church or not? If they are, then why would they teach something that's wrong (God is never wrong)? If they're not, then why would you belong to that church?

I agree in so far that any religion to hold the line to their values. Those values were set along time ago and are not subject to change at the whim of man to make it more convenient. My point was that 1. I really do not understand why so many people are religious as religion condemns quite a large portion of them (or so it seems)

You're right. People shouldn't be hypocrites. Nobody's perfect, but too many people don't come close to practicing what they preach. This isn't an excuse to write off all churches though.

and 2. The flock is shrinking because the message is antiquated. This is an organization that is stuck in the time when it was believe life could spontaneously be created (I’m talking about maggots growing on meat), the earth was thought to be flat and the center of the universe, solar eclipses were thought to be magic, people were burned at the stake for being witches, pigs were thought to be dirty animals just because they wallow in mud and the list goes on. Why the horse and buggy has disappeared and religion continues to have it’s followers is something that I just cannot comprehend.

That's why I don't believe the Catholic Church is God's church (Catholics, don't be too offended by this please.) Again, you can't write off all churches for this.

 

[KCFlyer]

I don't understand this one bit. How can you disagree with some of the things your church teaches? Are they God's church or not? If they are, then why would they teach something that's wrong (God is never wrong)? If they're not, then why would you belong to that church?

God never said anything about married priests. In fact, the church USED to have married priests at one time in it's history. It was changed centuries ago. IMHO, they'll have to change that rule, or they won't have enough priests. Same thing for women, although some fundamentalist churches seem to feel that women are only there to serve and please the male. I don't really recall God saying anything about birth control either. My mother was a very devout Catholic, but she said a few years ago that if she had it to do over again, she would have used birth control - because while she loved every one of her kids, she never really got to experience a loving closeeness with my father without a bit of fear of becoming pregnant again.

If you took in a Catholic Mass sometime, you might see that they spend more time teaching the Gospel than birth control or priests or abortion. There's a lot of good in the Catholic Church...women, especially Mary, the mother of Jesus, is held in very high regard. Some folks feel like we worship a false god because they feel we "worship" Mary. We don't. But we recognize her role in God taking a human form on earth.

Garfield...you seem upset that the Catholic church doesn't condemn homosexuals, but won't accept their practicing their sexuality. There aren't many churchs sho will...hell, there's several that won't allow them in their flock. There are some "progressive" churches that are accepting of gays, and apparently have no issues with their sex life. Rather than bash an established church, why not spread the word on those more progressive churches?

 

[Leto2]

God never said anything about married priests. In fact, the church USED to have married priests at one time in it's history. It was changed centuries ago. IMHO, they'll have to change that rule, or they won't have enough priests.

So are you Catholic? If so, why do you belong to a church you disagree with?

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

So are you Catholic? If so, why do you belong to a church you disagree with?

Because we have faith.

And we've been around thousands of years.

So what do you believe in?

 

[KCFlyer]

So are you Catholic? If so, why do you belong to a church you disagree with?

Leto...Mom was a Catholic, dad was a Methodist. I attended both, and quite frankly, I heard pretty much the same things... Jesus was the son of God, he died for our sins, and But Methodists and Baptists don't believe in drinking alchol, yet many do. Should they quit their church because they disagree with that?

 

[Leto2]

Leto...Mom was a Catholic, dad was a Methodist. I attended both, and quite frankly, I heard pretty much the same things... Jesus was the son of God, he died for our sins, and But Methodists and Baptists don't believe in drinking alchol, yet many do. Should they quit their church because they disagree with that?

If they truly think that God doesn't care if we drink alcohol, then they should no longer be a part of that church. If they believe that drinking alcohol is against God's will, but they sin by drinking anyways, then they ought to stop doing so. It's their decision whether they want to sin or not, but if they don't believe that it's wrong then why would they believe a church that says it's wrong?

God does not lie. Why would he have a church do something that isn't part of his laws? If a church says it's a sin to do something (like drink alcohol), but it's really not a sin in God's eyes, then the church is wrong and must not be God's true church. They are teaching false doctrine.

"Pretty much the same things" is not equal to "the same things". Catholics and Methodists do not teach the same doctrine. Likewise can be said about any other two Christian sects. Given that all sects and religions don't teach exactly the same thing, only ONE sect can teach the full truth. That's the one you need to find and join. Any other is teaching false doctrine, although they may teach good principles overall, they don't have the full truth.

Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[KCFlyer]

If they truly think that God doesn't care if we drink alcohol, then they should no longer be a part of that church. If they believe that drinking alcohol is against God's will, but they sin by drinking anyways, then they ought to stop doing so. It's their decision whether they want to sin or not, but if they don't believe that it's wrong then why would they believe a church that says it's wrong?

God does not lie. Why would he have a church do something that isn't part of his laws? If a church says it's a sin to do something (like drink alcohol), but it's really not a sin in God's eyes, then the church is wrong and must not be God's true church. They are teaching false doctrine.

I'm curious, what is God's true church? I mean, there are interpretations all the time - if God says your body is his temple, some folks mitgh interpret that to mean that you don't foul his temple with alcohol, drugs or tobacco. If someone is concerned about sins of the flesh, they might interpret that to mean that dancing is out because it tempts "vile" thoughts. If everybody quit any church because they didn't agree with some of their rules, there'd be an awful lot of empty churches in this country.

Using your logic, the Catholic church says it's a sin to use birth control, but I do - do I quit the church because I disagree with their stanc or ought I stop doing so?

You know, I don't know your religion...would you care to let me in on that? I've told you that I am Catholic. So what are you? Does your church teach "the full truth"? But I'd have to ask - what church (in your opinion) was the first to recognize Jesus Christ? I mean the protestant churches really didn't come into being until many of the founders of those religions broke from the Catholic church? You seem to be hung up on the "God's church" part of things....how about if we call it St Peter's church? Or do you not believe in saints?

 

[KCFlyer]

Leto...let me ask you this, because I watched a "religious kids show" on TV in Dallas several years ago. They had a character named "Gospel Bill", and it was a production of a fundamentalist religion. In that show, they had a little bible quiz for the kids, and on that episode they were quizzing them on the 10 commandments. They asked a question, and the goal was to get the answer of the 5th commandment. A sweet little girl smiled and said "Honor your mother and father". The host loudly proclaimed WRONG, then asked a boy (with a rather puzzled look on his face) what HIS answer was. The boy, after a moments pause, and still possessing that quizical look on his face said "Honor your father and mother", at which point the host said "Correct...remember in the bible the MAN IS FIRST". Now, I disagree mightily with that stance, and I guess that's why I don't belong that that particular religion. Was the host right or wrong?

Here's the basics of what I as a Catholic believe:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. with the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

And basically, THAT's what I heard in the Methodist church, but feel free to point out differences that you feel are major. In that, there isn't anything about birth control or priests marrying. And I believe what those words describe. So, should I quit the church or not?