City of Dallas still in talks with Delta about Love Field

[WorldTraveler]

The latest from Terry Maxon:
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/heres-the-latest-round-in-the-delta-southwest-airlines-tustle-at-love-field.html/

this has got to be one of the stupidest statements any lawyer could have possibly written:

"Southwest’s filing claims, basically, that Delta has no “direct and
substantial interest in the outcome” of this proceeding and shouldn’t be allowed in as a participant.


Goes to show how desperate WN is to get rid of DL by arguing that DL doesn't have a direct interest in its own ability to serve DAL. Really?

I guess for enough money WN's lawyers will write anything.

 

[swamt]

Kev, great post. Fantastic info thru-out. I actually see that Delta will in fact be interested in the outcome, but getting to the final outcome can and will be very difficult. Still wondering if Delta, once again, waited a little too long to get involved, as they did last time. We will all see soon.Very interesting and fun to watch...

Southwest doesn't want Delta interfering in legal fight with feds over Love Field gates

My bad try this one...
 
Southwest doesn’t want Delta interfering in legal fight ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

guess what, Einstein.

DL and the DOT doesn't want WN to be able to dominate an airport to the exclusion of all other competitors at a federally funded airport.

and the DOT is clearly on DL's side in one item after another which I have highlighted for well over a year regarding the DAL gate issue.

WN has no legal leg to stand on but they think they can keep bullying in hopes they will win.

They will not.

DL announced its schedules before WN did.

WN will be forced to accommodate DL as long as DL wants to stay at DAL.

the real issue is if DL can make a case that it should gain access to more gate space than it has right now because it had asked for space and WN refused even though WN had space available at the time of DL's request.

once again, all of this simply highlights that WN does not financially perform well when it has to a compete with other carriers, it knows that, and so WN does everything it can to dominate its markets and elminaite competitors.

WN's little game will be turned on its ear.

By DL and the DOT.

 

[eolesen]

Gaining standing is clearly in DL's interests, but it's an interesting approach by WN to frame that the only reasonable cause for allowing DL to gain standing is if DL can prove DOT's lawyers aren't competent enough to argue the case without DL's help.

Brilliant, actually. If DL wins, then clearly UA and AA should be able to claim standing as well.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, AA and UA don't have standing on the basis of the competence or incompetence of the DOT's lawyers.

DL has standing because it has an economic interest in the outcome. There is nothing that says a private citizen or company loses their standing just because the gov't is also arguing the same point.

further, AA and UA do not have any economic interest in what happens at DAL. AA has 9 years (+/-) left on its vacation from DAL service while UA voluntarily walked away.

as hard as it is for some to accept, DL was in the right to insist on being accommodated at DAL even after the DOJ took two gates and gave it to a competitor that likely won't survive at DAL.

 

[700UW]

More misinformation, who still owns two gates at DAL?

That would be AA, they sublease the gates to VX.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and if the DOT and DOJ says that WN cannot operate those gates, AA signed away its rights to use them as part of the merger agreement, and VX fails, you can bet they will not sit empty.

DL will be in them.


the best WN can hope for is that VX fails and DL takes over VX' gates so that WN can have its 18 gates.

 

[700UW]

AA doesnt have to lease them to Delta if VX fails.

 

[FWAAA]

If VX were to fail, I could see AA going back to the DOJ and asking the government to let AA reclaim its two DAL gates. Might not be a winner argument, but I could see Parker trying.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and then DAL's gate usage requirements that meet federal requirements regarding airport access would require that they be leased to whoever wants to use them. And AA won't be allowed to renege from its merger agreements unless the whole slot issue at DCA and LGA is also reopened which allowed WN and B6 to gain slots at the expense of expansion by DL and at the cost of AA. you can't reopen part of an agreement.

let's face it that AA, UA, WN, and VX have all been in a lengthy effort to try to shut DL out of the market after AA signed a merger agreement thinking that being at DAL didn't matter, VX thought they could really compete against WN (and they clearly cannot), and UA decided it wasn't worth its effort.

DL is the only airline that has demonstrated it can and wants to compete against WN at DAL.

the gates will be DL's at one point and until they are, WN will have the pleasure of subleasing its gates to DL.

 

[LD3]

further, AA and UA do not have any economic interest in what happens at DAL. AA has 9 years (+/-) left on its vacation from DAL service while UA voluntarily walked away.

Really?

 

[WorldTraveler]

sure... what part of the argument to you want to debate?

AA is absolutely impacted by WN's growth at DAL but AA signed away its right to serve DAL for 10 years as part of the merger agreement.

UA simply walked away. I said that UA would be impacted by the opening of longhaul domestic services from DAL more than DL has been and that has been true. to a great extent it is simply a matter of geography and the size of DL's ATL hub vs UA's IAH hub.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

DL is the only airline that has demonstrated it can and wants to compete against WN at DAL.
 

 
Another example of World Fraudster doing what he does best:  lying in order to try to sell a narrative / validate his dream theory that DL rules the world, while purposefully ignoring the fact that AA has been at DAL for years! 
 
WholeTruth, right.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then perhaps you can tell me what airline I missed.

let's go down the rundown one more time.

AA/US decided to give up the right to serve DAL in order to get merger approval.

neither AS or B6 applied. neither did any of the ULCCs.

UA decided within months of the end of the WA restrictions to leave.

VX is still there but offering discount companion tickets, not much different from what WN is doing at ATL.

DOT load factor data thru Dec 2014 is available and shows that VX' LF is 5 points or so below WN or DL's which is exactly what they did at DFW on comparable routes against AA.

so if VX thinks they were going to do better against WN at DAL than AA at DFW, the earliest public indications are that hasn't happened.

meanwhile, DL's Dec DAL LF was within tenths of a percent of what WN got from DAL.

so, again, who else did I miss who is at DAL and who has shown even the slightest ability to compete against WN?

 

[eolesen]

If VX were to fail, I could see AA going back to the DOJ and asking the government to let AA reclaim its two DAL gates. Might not be a winner argument, but I could see Parker trying.

 
Agree, FWAAA. By the time VX cries uncle, at least three of the following four things will have happened:

• WN's challenge on accommodating DL will have been heard in court
• There will be at least a year's worth of fare data to use demonstrate post-merger pricing and capacity discipline
• Enough evidence will exist to show how it was misguided to think a low fare/low cost carrier was really going to survive up against WN
• The run-up to the 2016 elections will be in full gear, which implies a new head of the DOT and DOJ within 12-18 months and a half-dozen Congressional seats up for re-election and both incumbents and challengers looking to make their mark

At the same time, don't discount the possibility that VX winds up in a merger situation with someone else i.e. B6 or AS (either situation is plausible), which could improve the outlook to generate traffic at DAL. VX might be a flashy name and product, but at the end of the day they have a seriously small footprint for coverage. I always thought B6 would have been a better choice for those gates.