CLE dehubbed

[LD3]

..which is why it is inexcusable that union leaders failed to understand this trend that was going to happen and protect the jobs of airline employees that are heavily dependent on small RJ flying. 

But it is ok that MEM & CVG get hammered....

 

[WorldTraveler]

but 700 just said that nothing can stop the changes that take place in the business.

If unions can't do anything to stop job losses, then it is no surprise why they are becoming extinct.

The DL employees aren't asking why DL pilots got the pay raises they did. You are the one that continues to have to push an issue which no one is asking in your attempt to stick your nose into a conversation that no one invited you to start.

Fix the problems which exist for your own dues paying members.

 

[LD3]

It was you I was responding to not 700, if it is inexcusable for labor leaders to see trends in the industry, then it is inexcusable for airline leaders to have a flawed business plan...

 

[700UW]

The DL employees aren't asking why DL pilots got the pay raises they did

So once again you are speaking for ALL Delta employees even though you arent one.
 
So tell me how you know what they are thinking or asking when you dont encounter them.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It was you I was responding to not 700, if it is inexcusable for labor leaders to see trends in the industry, then it is inexcusable for airline leaders to have a flawed business plan...

except that airline mgmts have the tools to change their business plans. Unions are supposed to protect the people who pay union dues.

If unions can't do that, what is their purpose? They aren't getting higher pay or protecting any more jobs.  
 

So once again you are speaking for ALL Delta employees even though you arent one.
 
So tell me how you know what they are thinking or asking when you dont encounter them.

I didn't use the word "all" but since you want to throw it in, the representation process is "winner take all" which means the majority rules. The largest non-pilot employee groups have consistently voted they aren't interested in further unionization.

That's a fact. I'm only reporting it. I don't need to speak for them. They have spoken for themselves.

 

[700UW]

except that airline mgmts have the tools to change their business plans. Unions are supposed to protect the people who pay union dues.

If unions can't do that, what is their purpose? They aren't getting higher pay or protecting any more jobs.  
 

I didn't use the word "all" but since you want to throw it in, the representation process is "winner take all" which means the majority rules. The largest non-pilot employee groups have consistently voted they aren't interested in further unionization.

That's a fact. I'm only reporting it. I don't need to speak for them. They have spoken for themselves.

 
 

The DL employees aren't asking why DL pilots got the pay raises they did. You are the one that continues to have to push an issue which no one is asking in your attempt to stick your nose into a conversation that no one invited you to start.

Fix the problems which exist for your own dues paying members.

Your words, not mine.

 

[Kev3188]

But it is ok that MEM & CVG get hammered....

Oh, that's different.


 
 

The DL employees aren't asking why DL pilots got the pay raises they did.

They aren't "asking" because they know the answer: you get what you negotiate.

To imply that it's not being discussed even now is false at best.

So once again you are speaking for ALL Delta employees even though you arent one.

Right?

 

[yoyodyne]

June 29, 2012 till the end of 2014 is 2 1/2 years, excuse the journalism from the WSJ.
 
Still why are the pilots getting 20% and no other employees at DL got that?
 
Hmm, I wonder why.
 
I took no side on the issue at UA, go find a post where I said good or bad about the UA deal.

 
 
I wonder....
 

 
said any ramp agent ever...

 

[xUT]

 

Rich Delaney, 02 February 2014: Download

IAM members in CLE, along with the rest of America, found out Saturday afternoon of United's plans to radically change the operation of the station. District 141 found out at the same time; no advanced discussion, no opportunity to talk about alternatives. We have since had discussion with United management regarding this announcement. We will meet with management this coming week to explore all possibilities to address the needs and futures of our CLE membership. The company has made it clear that their decision to drastically shrink CLE's operation is not going to change. The discussions need to focus on what options our contracts provide to find long term employment for our members whether in CLE or other stations across the system. All options will be fully explored, based on existing language that address the security and seniority rights of members.

The brief discussion held with United this weekend raised several points. The company's decision was based on criteria other than the performance and work ethic of IAM members in CLE. Our members come to work, work hard, and provide excellent service to United's customers. The problems of CLE are not caused or solved by the employees. The company's announcement exposes the problem of reliance on Express operations. United's decision to stop domestic expansion and instead rely on other airlines to provide so much of their passengers has been developing for years. The expansion of the Express operation has put our membership at risk in line stations all through the system as mainline operations were reduced or eliminated. What we are seeing in CLE today is the other side of a risky business model that places so much emphasis on the operation of other airlines. As fuel cost continue to stay at an absurdly high level, the inefficiencies of small regional jets are exposed and the high cost of operating these aircraft becomes a drain on the overall success of the airline. Recently implemented changes in Federal Air Regulations regarding training and duty periods for regional jet flight crews are also proving to expose the hidden costs of "low cost" airlines.

The recent negotiations between District 141 and United focused on the expansion of Express operations and the impact the contracting out of so much of United's operation to these airlines was having on our membership. Changes made in our contracts provide some protection against this contracting out. The situation in CLE is not about contracting out - it is about ceasing operations by other airlines. The current level of mainline operations in CLE will remain - it is the loss of Express operations that is causing this planned loss of jobs.

United has told us that the effect of this decision will be felt by our members in June. We will work as quickly as we can to see what options will be available to impacted members and give them as much time as possible to evaluate their options and make decisions that are best for themselves and their families.

United's announcement of profitability in 2013 has raised many questions from members regarding the Profit Sharing provisions of our Agreements. Most confusing is the references to percentage levels and what they truly mean. Naturally, members question how our contract can refer to a 5% Profit Sharing figure while the company announces a 1.1% payment. It is essential to understand the differences between these references. During the recent negotiations the determination was made to increase the guaranteed wages of employees by reducing the amount of money due the IAM through Profit Sharing and put that money into the hourly rate of pay for all members.

Our contract calls for the company to place 5% of their pre-tax profits into a pool for IAM members. This percentage changes every year, based on the declared profit of United, and is not tied to the earnings of employees. The pool of money created by the pre-tax profit is then distributed among all IAM members. This distribution is based on each person's earnings compared to the total earnings of all IAM members for the year. This calculation establishes a fixed percentage for all IAM members so that those members that earned more receive a greater share of the profit than those members that did not work as much or earn as much. All money placed in the Profit Sharing pool is distributed among members; no Profit Sharing money is given to the IAM.

The rules governing the Profit Sharing program have been in place for over 10 years without change. The only adjustments that have been made over that time is the percentage amount committed to IAM members. Our financial advisor is currently reviewing this year's distribution, based on information recently provided by United to insure that the provisions of our contract are followed completely.
 

 

That's why the iam sucks. When UA shut down Indy, what did the iam do?
....

 

[xUT]

Gee, swamt. I find that level of naivete refreshing in someone your age.

Yeah, over here at PMAA, they told us back in 2003 that the major concessions we gave to keep the company out of bankruptcy would be the last they ever asked for, and that they would NEVER consider bankruptcy as a way to abrogate the union contracts like those other airlines were doing. (Did I mention that they had $5 billion in cash in the banks when we went into bankruptcy, and the only real purpose to the bk was to abrogate the union contracts and eviscerate the pension plan?)

You don't suppose that UAL/CO or PMAA management might have been lying to us, do you?

 
Sage advice and insight...

 

[LD3]

except that airline mgmts have the tools to change their business plans.     
 
 

In other words, BK - outsourcing - layoffs... This has not happened at unionized airlines only... I get it WT, you have a very real dislike for unions, and you are entitled to your opinion, but don't put DL on a pedestal and say that they have not done the same things that mgmnt at a union airlines have done.... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL non-pilot employees may be asking why pilots are getting a higher pay raise in one year of their contract but what has been repeatedly ignored is that 1. pilot gave up scope via more large RJs in order to gain that increased pay. 2. pilots gave DL scheduling flexibility and 3. All other DL employee groups gained pay raises of the same or higher amounts in every year other than the year with the 8% increase for DL pilots.

What scope and scheduling flexibility have any work groups given up?


not only has it not happened just at unionized airlines, it has happened at, gasp, WN! They have closed cities and their employees have had to make the same choices as, gasp, non-unionized DL employees to either take the company's package or move.

I don't put DL on a pedestal either. I am just saying that there is no proof that any airline has significantly handled the restructuring that has taken place in the industry any better than any other.

Cities close, operations move to chase the possibility of new profits.

The only real difference with the changing operations that are taking place right now is that DL is bringing RJ work back to DL employees via the 717s. No other airline is significantly reducing the size of its overall regional carrier operations. US is cutting 50 seaters but they are now married to AA who is going on a large RJ spending binge that will more than erase whatever reductions in small RJ flying that US is doing.

UA simply cannot buy enough large RJs (because of labor agreements) or justify adding mainline aircraft to get rid of the number of small RJs that UA needs to park.

The restructuring of regional carrier capacity is the most significant strategic change that will take place at the legacy carriers over the next few years.

The reason why MEM and CVG are no different from CLE is because the economic basis for the reductions is the same. Small RJs are not viable, esp. when they are used in connecting use which is exactly how they were used at MEM, CVG, and CLE.

Networks that are built on high percentages of RJ to RJ connections remain highly vulnerable.

 

[737823]

That's why the iam sucks. When UA shut down Indy, what did the iam do?
....

Roach, Buffy, and Sito didn't shed a tear.

Remember these have only been dues payers since October (PCE) since sCO was unorganized, they join the IAM then get an agreement with the worst scope in the industry and lose their job. Unreal! Of course the IAM was the biggest winner in the IBT campaign, first IBT agreement was November 2010 so the IAM got to collect dues from day one administering the IBT contract, IBT made the investment organizing and only got to collect dues til July 2011. Really does a great job showing the organized what being a Machinist is all about (as the IAM videos say!).

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

 

What scope and scheduling flexibility have any work groups given up?

How can a group give something up if they don't have it in the first place?

 

[737823]

Kev what does the situation at CLE along with the new UA agreement demonstrate to the newly organized about the value of being in the IAM?

Josh