Coming to a billboard near you?

[brokenwrench]

Gaucho99, you seem pretty knowledgeable about the industry. Would you be kind enough to list all of the airline merger's that have resulted in the combined revenue/debt decreasing? No layoffs "except for a few management positions that do not need duplication and these people will be well compensated." Oh yeah and one that didnt result in a hub closure.

Thanks.

 

[N924PS]

Gaucho99, you seem pretty knowledgeable about the industry. Would you be kind enough to list all of the airline merger's that have resulted in the combined revenue/debt decreasing? No layoffs "except for a few management positions that do not need duplication and these people will be well compensated." Oh yeah and one that didnt result in a hub closure.

Thanks.

Try:

Delta/Western

Delta/Northeast

Delta/Chicago&Southern

Hey, it worked for Delta, why not for Doug?

 

[brokenwrench]

Sorry should have clarified to include airline mergers since deregulation.

Delta/Western added a LAX hub and MTC hanger that later closed. DL is slowly rebuilding service there.

Also there was VERY little overlap at the time of the merger, it was a friendly merger and is the exception to the rule.
The merger occurred at the START of an upswing in the airline financial cycle. This allowed for the growth in the combined airline and raises for all employee groups in over the first three years of the merger.

My question still stands.

 

[johnnyfleet]

I think it's time to ban the word "Piedmont" as in airline. We'll refer to Piedmont as that region in Italy; a much more pleasant thing to think of than hillbillyairlines.

Later,
Eye

Good thing that USAir from that enlightened region of frigid weather, polluted skies, coal miners and ex-steel workers took over, and let's not forget the sophisticated residents of Beaver County!! Western PA really must be the enlightenment capital of the World!

 

[gaucho99]

Gaucho99, you seem pretty knowledgeable about the industry. Would you be kind enough to list all of the airline merger's that have resulted in the combined revenue/debt decreasing? No layoffs "except for a few management positions that do not need duplication and these people will be well compensated." Oh yeah and one that didnt result in a hub closure.

Thanks.

Well, I'm far from an expert on prior industry mergers, and I don't think I said the revenus and debt would decrease...it would definately increase, but in proportion to the size of the airline, it would be smaller than DL's stand-alone projection.

Now take the US-HP merger...Granted, we are still in the merger process, but we did not layoff anyone other than managers who were given good severance packages. In fact, we have hired 4,000 new employees since the merger and all hubs of the two airlines are still hubs today.

Of the work groups where we have completed negotiations, nobody has taken a pay-cut and many have received wage increases. I know one lady from HP Customer Relations who went from $12 hr to $18 hr. ( Currently being installed in three separate increases and the final one will be mid 2007.)

The combined company will report a 2006 profit of well over $400 million dollars and every employee will get their annual Profit Sharing check in addition to their regular salary.

The problems with the merger are very temporary and have been blown out of proportion by a few vocal people. By and large, the workgroups have come together well and we are working together as one entity. No reason why the merger with DL cannot go even better due to learning from the first one.

 

[757inthebarrel]

Well, I'm far from an expert on prior industry mergers, and I don't think I said the revenus and debt would decrease...it would definately increase, but in proportion to the size of the airline, it would be smaller than DL's stand-alone projection.

Now take the US-HP merger...Granted, we are still in the merger process, but we did not layoff anyone other than managers who were given good severance packages. In fact, we have hired 4,000 new employees since the merger and all hubs of the two airlines are still hubs today.

You accuse me of repeating the claims of those that don't want the merger and I see you repeating the claims of those that do want the merger with no support for your claims except what Parker says. The fact is the man will say whatever it takes to push the merger through.

We fly basically the exact same routes. How can you believe Parker's claims that there will be no job losss? DALPA was in the room when he made his presentation to the creditors. They know exactly what his plan is and have stated there will be 1000 pilot job losses alone.

A merged DL's debt would be much larger than a standalone DL's even adjusted for the larger size of the carrier. It cannot help but be when 4 billion in cash will be used just to buy off the creditors not to mention the 4+ Bil in stock. DL projects 23 Bil in debt if the takeover is successful and about 8 Bil as a standalone. That debt will be crushing for the combined carrier.

Have you ever thought that you may be hiring now because you are among the lowest compensated employees in the industry and people are leaving in droves?

I've listened to everything Parker has put out and I'm not impressed. There are far too many holes in a plan put together in haste. Luckily this deal is almost dead, in my opinion. There are very, very few supporters outside of Tempe while armies are lining up against it.

 

[gaucho99]

You accuse me of repeating the claims of those that don't want the merger and I see you repeating the claims of those that do want the merger with no support for your claims except what Parker says. The fact is the man will say whatever it takes to push the merger through.

We fly basically the exact same routes. How can you believe Parker's claims that there will be no job losss? DALPA was in the room when he made his presentation to the creditors. They know exactly what his plan is and have stated there will be 1000 pilot job losses alone.

My post was largely stated facts. No layoffs in the HP-US merger is a fact, not some unsubstantiated claim I am repeating. Hiring 4,000 new employees is a fact, wage increases in most workgroups is a fact, our 400+ million dollar 2006 profit is a fact, as well as profit sharing for every employee.

Additionally, no layoffs in the DL-US merger will be a fact, it will be part of the agreed upon condition for the merger to take place, just like the $4 billion dollars in cash. Doug cannot get the ok for the merger, then tell the creditors now that the deal is done, you're not getting your cash after all. The same is true with no layoffs. It's part of the deal and I think DL people understand this but are trying to find anything they can to try and discredit the deal.

I've said all along, DL people aren't oppossed to a merger, they are just opposed to a merger with US. If true, I think they need to secure another partner because a DL-Stand alone cannot beat the US-DL merger.

 

[luv2fly]

The same is true with no layoffs. It's part of the deal

no layoffs in the DL-US merger will be a fact

I challenge you to substantiate your statements as fact.
Please elighten us as to where me might find this information.

 

[gaucho99]

I challenge you to substantiate your statements as fact.
Please elighten us as to where me might find this information.
[/quote]


See page 10 of the official proposal by US.

http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/19...bservations.pdf

 

[BoeingBoy]

It all depends on HOW you define a layoff.

It boils down to the difference between "facts" and "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".....

Facts, if chosen carefully enough, can be used to present a distorted picture of reality. The former MDA folks are a case in point - the transaction that lead to their layoff was consumated well before the US/HP merger, hence their layoff doesn't count as "merger related". Likewise, all the layoffs that US had during BK2 - those were before the merger so aren't "merger related".

Parker has said that much of the synergy will be lost if the merger isn't agreed to before DL exits BK. Just as was the case with US, how much of that synergy depends on downsizing DL while in BK but before the merger officially happens?

Some other facts....

"Hiring 4,000 new employees is a fact"

If you hire 1,000 people to work the ramp over the course of 12 months but 90% quit within their first month because of pay/working conditions, the reality is that there are only 100 new ramp workers at the end of the year. That 1000 were hired may be a "fact", but the "truth" is very different.

The "truth" is that there are less FTE employees at US/HP than when the merger occured, according to numbers submitted to the BTS.

"wage increases in most workgroups is a fact"

I guess it depends on how you define "workgroups". With pilots, F/A's, mechanics, fleet service, and some others still working under their separate pre-merger contracts, a significant number of US/HP employees haven't seen wage increases due to the merger.

"our 400+ million dollar 2006 profit is a fact"

It may become a fact - we'll find out in a month or so - but it isn't yet.

"as well as profit sharing for every employee"

Ditto, though more of a sure thing because of the way profit sharing is calculated. Of course, the "every employee" part is only true because the US (East) unions agreed to share their profit sharing negotiated during BK with their counterparts on the HP side - Parker certainly didn't provide the money to provide profit sharing for the HP folks.

"no layoffs in the DL-US merger will be a fact"

Presumably, just like the "no layoffs due to the US/HP merger" factoid. Pay no attention to the man behind the BK curtain laying people off.....

Jim

 

[luv2fly]

I am inclined to agree with Jim. There is no way this merge happens without reducing headcounts. How you go about doing it is arguing semantics. The "new" Delta will have far less employees than a simply combined US/DL. Who will have to go has yet to be determined and simply saying the US/AW deal resulted in no layoffs is misleading at best.
The people left at Delta are the ones who stayed after all the cutbacks in BK. Any further cuts will result in people leaving who have already chosen not to. That constitutes a layoff by my definition.

 

[osunut]

It's been rehashed endlessly on this board but here are the main reasons in my opinion:

It will:

- Result in fewer jobs as we have almost complete route overlap.

****This is false, it didn't happen before and it will not happen this time. You have no supporting information, beside"overlap", which is far less than what DL is stating to the press.****

- Increase the DL employees time in BK by a year or more when they were ready to exit.

****Again False. There is an exit plan that is in place and it will have DL out of BK before the end of the year, 3Q ish. There is again no supporting documentation out that says DL will stay in BK for years to come****

- Create instability by adding two unmerged groups of employees to our 45000 employees.

****You can work under two different work rules while intergration goes on. The HP/US merger has moved faster than any other merger. The intergration of TW/AA, which was a complete scrape of TW and should have done fairly quickly, took well into 2 years. The US Mgmt has been through this already and knows how to improve upon it.****

- Add massive debt to our bottom line. Debt that was used to buy us.

****Having a larger debt amount doesn't mean anything unless you put it into relative terms. Some of the most profitable Fortune 500 companies in the world have some of the largest debts when you compare it to the size of the company, like you are doing. Another FALSE scare tatic by DL.****

- Drive more mergers with us being left in the weakest one.

****The only other cominabtion that could happen where it would not put the new carrier in a much more difficult financial position of there is with NW. Not to get on the DoJ issue again, but US/DL can overcome the DoJ issues. NW/AA or UA/NW can not. You think DL/US would have overlap, have you looked at the remaining Legacy's routings?****

- Leave a vacuum of divested routes for competitors to step into. Ready made markets for them.

****This is the point and how you INCREASE competition! Don't tout HIGHER FARE, RUINED ROUTES, BLAH BLAH BLAH, if you can not understand the simple basics of competition.****

I'm glad you are happy with Parker and friends but the only thing I can see they have accomplished so far is get financing for the deal. The heavy lifting was done at US before he got there and is done at DL now. Your employee group is not close to integration. This is no time for another merger.

****Again FALSE, US still had several, several issues that still was causing the old US to get to the point of Ch 7, which would have started in mid 2006 if things didn't change. The merger helped and created those accomplishments to get where the new US is in the most stable position ever.****

Our product direction is completely different. We have very talented individuals onboard who have led this restructuring. We don't need or want anyone to come in a take over a job that's done. Unless, perhaps Gordon is available. It's kind of like you waiting for me to fix up my classic 67' Fastback then stealing it from me. I spent a ton of time and money on it but you're the one driving it.

****Those talented people can still see the improvements that they created. There are a TON of talented people that stayed from both sides and it is a wonderful thing. As far as fixing up your car and then stealing it, there is another twist. Fixing up your car to the point of putting yourself in BK and then getting mad because the courts sold it to pay your debts. Two sides of the fence....****

There is no reason for any DL employee to be in favor of this deal and very little reason for any US employee to be. It would be a mess for years to come.

****I can think of 45,000 plus reasons that will be better off in the future by this merger than without it.****

Accept life for what it is and stop worrying all the time. No amount of DL employee pushback, including ALPA which only has 1/15th of the total debt owed, so no they really are not a major factor, or media mud slinging or Congressmen and women will be able to stop somethign that can pass all of the DoJ regulations, FAA tests, etc.... in the end.

With Respect......osunut

 

[Hula Girl]

I think it's time to ban the word "Piedmont" as in airline. We'll refer to Piedmont as that region in Italy; a much more pleasant thing to think of than hillbillyairlines.

Later,
Eye

My husband flew for Piedmont before it was bought by Usair. It was an incredible airline and represented true Southern Hospitality. I had Mr. Howard on my flight many times, taking him to ILM and he was such a gentleman. Mr. Davis gave me a copy of the last Pacemaker magazine after I had him on my flight and was equally as kind. Piedmont was a class act where employees were considered family, not enemies. And Piedmont refers to the central region of North Carolina- it is not just reserved for 'that region in Italy' you idiot.

 

[Itestwell]

My husband flew for Piedmont before it was bought by Usair. It was an incredible airline and represented true Southern Hospitality. I had Mr. Howard on my flight many times, taking him to ILM and he was such a gentleman. Mr. Davis gave me a copy of the last Pacemaker magazine after I had him on my flight and was equally as kind. Piedmont was a class act where employees were considered family, not enemies. And Piedmont refers to the central region of North Carolina- it is not just reserved for 'that region in Italy' you idiot.

Oh my..... that "Southern Hospitality" thing again..... It's getting a little deep in here....

 

[PHLfa88]

etops1-It's nice to see you still post on the DL board. I, for one, will no longer read (or post) any comments on the USAirways board regarding the merger. More than one person over there has stated they don't want us over there. So much for DL people being the "nasty" ones.

My Partner is A F/A For Delta...Your ALWAYS Welcome on Our Board!! I Know etops, He's a Great Guy! It's Funny, he comes home after a trip and says all the people he flys with do Not have the Negitive Attitude that So Many on This Board Do. Why is That? We were in SJU a couple of weeks ago and the DL crew beat us to the limo co that takes us to our respective hotels (we use the same company) our capt inquired with the van driver about another van, The F/A's were in their van and one nice F/A said to our capt " come on in there is plenty of room were almost family" I thought that was classy.
Happy New Year!