Doug Parkers recent statement about his reason to cutback flights in PIT is puzzling. He said if PIT does not start making money that the are going to have to cut more flights in PIT. He says we can't keep running routes that aren't making any money. Tell me Doogie, then why are you not cutting out the whole West operation? It is a fact that the West is not the side that is making the profits it is the East. And Southwest says they are making money hand over fist in PIT. Tell me what part of the West operation is making money? I think that there is a an ulterior motive behind what Doogie is doing with PIT and it's not about making money. If Southwest can do it why can't we. All of the flights are packed out of PIT. What is the truth DP? He's not a CEO he is a deal maker and lies more than anyone else that tried to run this KMart of an airline. This West management has brought nothing but low class to this place with all their lies and deceit.
Reason To Cutback Flights In PIT?
- Thread starter isthisok
- Start date
Goodie! Another 'woe is me' PIT topic!
How do you know the whole west operation loses money? Is it because HP posted a loss the last quarter? Didn't the HP side of the operation take certain 'one time' expenses that may have caused it to show a loss? Anyone?
I still love how the 'burghers think that DP is lying, and that we are pulling out of PIT to spite someone.
Keep 'em goin, guys. This stuff is great!- Thread Starter
- #3
Goodie! Another 'woe is me' PIT topic!
How do you know the whole west operation loses money? Is it because HP posted a loss the last quarter? Didn't the HP side of the operation take certain 'one time' expenses that may have caused it to show a loss? Anyone?
I still love how the 'burghers think that DP is lying, and that we are pulling out of PIT to spite someone.
Goodie another koolaid drinker. Fact is Southwest is making money out of PIT. US keeps cutting back in PIT and SW keeps expanding. Keep making excuses for the West loses but fact is the East side it making all the profits. My opinion is that Doogie wants PIT to be a Republic city running mainline with a budget crew. US mainline is shrinking and Republic mainline is growing. Have another cup of koolaid.
hula-flyguy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2005
- 910
- 47
I'm sure that if you look at the stats, we are making money on the routes that we compete with southwest on. Now, take a look at the other routes. Pick through and I'm sure you'll find some dead wood in there.
Yeah, it sucks living here and not being able to non rev, but it is what it is....a dead city.
Yeah, it sucks living here and not being able to non rev, but it is what it is....a dead city.
I love it. No answers or facts to provide me, so I am a koolaid drinker. That never gets old.
Just because I am asking for you to produce FACTS that HP lost lotsa $$$ in the West last quarter does not make me a koolaid drinker. Produce the undisputed facts, and I will go back to my koolaid. 
Sounds like another last ditch defense from a 'burgher hangin' on by a thread....
I love it. No answers or facts to provide me, so I am a koolaid drinker. That never gets old.
Just because I am asking for you to produce FACTS that HP lost lotsa $$$ in the West last quarter does not make me a koolaid drinker. Produce the undisputed facts, and I will go back to my koolaid. Sounds like another last ditch defense from a 'burgher hangin' on by a thread....
If they cut out the "whole West Operation" that they would not have a place to write off expenses. As it stand now, all the expenses (both East and West Operation) is written off agains West i Operation ncome.
Thus making the West operation look unprofitable? Perhaps it was profitable? Ooh, that koolaid is sooo good...
I have said this many times, and it is usually met with some intelligent "koolaid" comment. With the exception of BWI, don't we still serve most of the routes WN serves outta PIT?
hula-flyguy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2005
- 910
- 47
The West was profitable ..2003, 2004, 2005 ... amazing how losses started once we merged with an airline that hasn't produced profits since. .when????
As you probably know, there are large corporate expenses not related to the "direct" operations. These are called overhead, and include things such as maintaining a corporate HQ building, and paying salaries of people that dont' belong to one division. These include people in HR, payroll, benefits, company store,IT-not to mention those highly paid execs. If those expenses were charged against the west , then that would be a partial reason why the west is showing a loss. In addition, I believe the west airplanes were being re-painted at a faster rate.
Besides . .even if the west were unprofitable without all these expenses ..I love how people on the east seem to imply that USAirways would have been profitable in 2006 & first quarter 2007 without the merger--or that HP would have been unprofitable without the merger.
As you probably know, there are large corporate expenses not related to the "direct" operations. These are called overhead, and include things such as maintaining a corporate HQ building, and paying salaries of people that dont' belong to one division. These include people in HR, payroll, benefits, company store,IT-not to mention those highly paid execs. If those expenses were charged against the west , then that would be a partial reason why the west is showing a loss. In addition, I believe the west airplanes were being re-painted at a faster rate.
Besides . .even if the west were unprofitable without all these expenses ..I love how people on the east seem to imply that USAirways would have been profitable in 2006 & first quarter 2007 without the merger--or that HP would have been unprofitable without the merger.
So why didn't the old regime close everything down when WE lost money by the truck loads for years?
They didn't seem to have a problem closing and cutting everywhere else but now that "project High Ground" has come to PIT's front door there are all kinds of disbelief and conspiracy theories.
Everybody should be grateful to WN for providing commuter service to PHL-they treat people nice too.
Wasn't to long ago many referred to their PAX (as some may well remember) as "Trailer Trash"(not me).
Well they seem to do quite well with that clientel?.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Load factor has little to do with whether the operation is profitable. There have been a number of low cost carriers that have entered the PIT market (think Air Tran, Jet Blue, and Southwest), which have depressed yields on some of US' more traditionally lucrative routes. USAirways still has some of the highest costs (CASM) in the industry. As EMBA more eloquently stated; Just because you reside in PIT, the midfield terminal's architecture may be nice, and there's lots of Allegheny Airlines nostalgia, aren't ingredients for a profitable operation. USAirways' cutbacks aren't made to "spite" its PIT employees. Market conditions have changed. It's no different than DL pulling down DFW; United pulling down MIA; and AA pulling down SJC. While PHX and LAS may operate at a loss, their operations may contribute to the company's overall profit margin. I'm not trying to be insensitive. These are business decisions that shouldn't be taken as a personal assault. I believe that every network carrier has had to make difficult decisions based upon current market conditions and the operating environment in which they face. It is a fiercely competitive operating environment and every airline is continually reevaluating their markets. The industry trend is to focus on major operations in markets that are cash cows, that being, a combination of being able to extract the highest revenue premium possible, from the greatest number of customers (meaning a high concentration of O&D traffic). And trust me, I am the last person to be drinking any Koolaide dispensed from Tempe. It is what it is...a business decision.
CynicalResAgent
Veteran
Sounds like US is marginally effective against WN in PHX and LAS. The flights from PHX to LAS don't perform too well and they had to cut service from LAS to DEN because there was too much competition and the yield went down too low. So the West has its problems competeing too
In another thread I tried to compare PIT to CLE and make the argument that if CO could use larger equipment into EWR like their new Q400's and shift their RJ flying to CLE using the limited airspace in EWR more wisely and shifting aircraft to their midwestern hub (CLE) then why couldn't US make the same thing work in PIT after all PHL needs some relief from airtraffic constrants and the cities are of similar populations. CLE has WN and CAK has a pretty good sized FL operation.
I think PIT could be profitable but US has a lot of EAS service into PIT and some marginably profitable RJ service run by Transtates and just a few mainline flights. It would take someone who was innovative and creative though and those types are few are far to be found in this industry. Hell, if Skybus thinks they can turn CMH into a profit center flying into Exit 161 on I-75 in Florida then I think theres someone who thinks PIT could be a hub.
The CO ops in CLE isn't too impressive now but is slowly being ramped up and will soon add transatlantic service
In another thread I tried to compare PIT to CLE and make the argument that if CO could use larger equipment into EWR like their new Q400's and shift their RJ flying to CLE using the limited airspace in EWR more wisely and shifting aircraft to their midwestern hub (CLE) then why couldn't US make the same thing work in PIT after all PHL needs some relief from airtraffic constrants and the cities are of similar populations. CLE has WN and CAK has a pretty good sized FL operation.
I think PIT could be profitable but US has a lot of EAS service into PIT and some marginably profitable RJ service run by Transtates and just a few mainline flights. It would take someone who was innovative and creative though and those types are few are far to be found in this industry. Hell, if Skybus thinks they can turn CMH into a profit center flying into Exit 161 on I-75 in Florida then I think theres someone who thinks PIT could be a hub.
The CO ops in CLE isn't too impressive now but is slowly being ramped up and will soon add transatlantic service
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