Company's Offer

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

You have no idea what you're talking about. But you do have a lot of class, I'll grant you that.

OTAY PANKY

you have all the answers

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"Fact is, for the past five years, AA's posted an aggregate net loss since the concessions were imposed. The net losses of 2003-05 wiped out the profits of 2006-07. Last quarter's loss alone wiped out the 206 net profit."

Okay,

Let's see. With the above post if AA still can't make money, even with "retaining" upper management with bonuses, what should be done? As this thread is titled, "Company's offer", what should be done?

1. Accept another big bite from the never stale $#!t sandwhich and appease the traveling public with bare bone air fare.

2. Stand up and demand that labor is NOT the problem and that labor has done all that was needed 5 years ago to save AA. Demand the return of our wage and benefits.

3. Listen to company and union supporters who hide behind an alias while trying to explain what reality is like in their anonymous world.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

FWAAA, FrequentflierCA, and eoleson are all speaking from the same book/party line.

Each always says they "hope we get the best" but we are just wrong in our thinking. Then spew the corporate agenda or fear monegering BS.

I personally think the so-called customers that know about lean times, and the so-called previous management types all of which seem to now work for a consulting type of firm hired to attempt to influence the internet bulletin boards and blogs need to stay out of our negotiations and internal problems.

Go away, we are on to you. Not hard to see you are either all one in the same or well trained together in what coporate wants posted here.

You're a real piece of work, you know that? Save the baseless accusations and general idiocy for your tirades against management.

Oh, and by the way, this is a public discussion board. If you want a place just for you and your extremist cronies to rant about the injustice of your lives, go found your own site.

 

[TWU informer]

You're a real piece of work, you know that? Save the baseless accusations and general idiocy for your tirades against management.

Oh, and by the way, this is a public discussion board. If you want a place just for you and your extremist cronies to rant about the injustice of your lives, go found your own site.

Doesn't take much reading of your postings to see the truth. I am no idiot.

Again, what exactly was it that you sacrificed since 2003?
What is your stake in the outcome of our negotiations again?

You cannot even answer these two simple questions.

 

[FWAAA]

It seems the VEBA TWU plan like the UAW/GM plan has vanished from the proposal.

At least the company version I received via e-mail doesn't mention the VEBA

There was no agreement on a VEBA, only an agreement to look into one. The TWU summarized it as follows:

CREATE A JOINT COMMITTEE TO EXPLORE IMPLEMENTATION OF A VEBA TRUST ADMINISTERED BY THE TWU SIMILAR TO THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN UAW AND GENERAL MOTORS

http://www.twu.org/downloads/pdfs/aaupdate051608.pdf (page 2)

Of course, your union would have ratified one without further vote had an agreement been reached on a VEBA, given its history.

 

[captianamerica]

""It's not everything that was taken, but it sounds like a decent start"" ?????? decent start???? Whats this???It started 5+ years ago with concessions...We should already be caught up by now going fwd, not just starting...

I big apology if this has already been posted in this form.

I know a lot of agents that would be extremely happy with this proposal. Unfortunately, in order for the company to pay this out, they'll have to get it from somewhere else - most likely, from the agent group:

Two years – with the option to open early six months prior to the amendable date
Pay:

Lump sum payments as follows:
Five percent (5%) on date of signing
Three and one half percent (3.5%) one year after date of signing
Commitment to explore a performance-based variable compensation plan, which is tied to corporate and local business results.
Holidays:

One additional holiday in 2008 (Day after Thanksgiving)
Two additional holidays in 2009 (MLK Day and Memorial Day, in addition to the Day after Thanksgiving)
Increase holiday rate of pay to double time from time and a half
Sick Leave:

Increase sick leave accrual rate to six (6) days in 2008
Increase sick leave accrual rate to eight (8) days in 2009
Full pay for sick leave
Vacation:

Three additional Day-at-a-Time (DAT) Personal Days per year, effective 2009
Flexibility in choosing which days to take off, subject to operational requirements
Employees have the option of being paid in lieu for these
Health and Retirement Benefits/Pensions:

All benefits and pensions remain the same
Profit Sharing:

Adopt new profit sharing plan effective 2008 to be paid in 2009
Plan pays out at first dollar of profit
Plan accumulates as follows:
$1-$250 million = 30 percent
$250 million - $500 million = 25 percent
$500 million and above = 20 percent


SOURCE LINK


It's not everything that was taken, but it sounds like a decent start.

Thanks for your reading patience and again, apologies if this has already been posted in this form.

 

[captianamerica]

I have been at AA in Tulsa for going on 12 yrs now, and every contract seems like the first offer is always the best..

Yes I know. Rather than "shove it" I think I would have used it as a base to counter. At least it is something to work with which is a helluva lot more than the pilots got so far.

 

[DallasConehead]

IMO, there won't be a counter to the counter, mediation is next. It will last as long as it takes for things to turn around, if they ever do. In the meantime most likely there will be wholesale parking, closing of small stations, RIFs, reduced schedules and workloads.

If the economic turn around doesn't happen soon enough, AA will burn through the cash eventually filing BK. All our pensions will be turned over to PBGC. Sky is falling scenario? Maybe, but entriely possible.

I'm not advocating or promoting the offer, just being real. Unfortunately, upper management poisened the well of good will and another substandard agreements with their multimillion dollar bonuses and mismanagement of our great company.

 

[Hopeful]

IMO, there won't be a counter to the counter, mediation is next. It will last as long as it takes for things to turn around, if they ever do. In the meantime most likely there will be wholesale parking, closing of small stations, RIFs, reduced schedules and workloads.

If the economic turn around doesn't happen soon enough, AA will burn through the cash eventually filing BK. All our pensions will be turned over to PBGC. Sky is falling scenario? Maybe, but entriely possible.

I'm not advocating or promoting the offer, just being real. Unfortunately, upper management poisened the well of good will and another substandard agreements with their multimillion dollar bonuses and mismanagement of our great company.

MEDIATION will be a refreshing option. I'll take my chances with the arbitrator.. The AA/TWU lovefest has to end and end now....They want to screw us again AND layoff people...

Just like we are constantly reminded how the free market works and how the "market" dictates executive pay, I want what was taken from me and if it bankrupts the company, SO BE IT!

THAT'S THE FREE MARKET, BOYS AND GIRLS

 

[1AA]

MEDIATION will be a refreshing option. I'll take my chances with the arbitrator.. The AA/TWU lovefest has to end and end now....They want to screw us again AND layoff people...

Just like we are constantly reminded how the free market works and how the "market" dictates executive pay, I want what was taken from me and if it bankrupts the company, SO BE IT!

THAT'S THE FREE MARKET, BOYS AND GIRLS

What makes you think that the TWU/AA and the mediator are all in one. We are in a anti-labor period under this current administration.
I say hold out until the next president takes office in the White House and see what happens. Does the 95 contract sound familiar?

 

[FWAAA]

Okay,

Let's see. With the above post if AA still can't make money, even with "retaining" upper management with bonuses, what should be done? As this thread is titled, "Company's offer", what should be done?

1. Accept another big bite from the never stale $#!t sandwhich and appease the traveling public with bare bone air fare.

2. Stand up and demand that labor is NOT the problem and that labor has done all that was needed 5 years ago to save AA. Demand the return of our wage and benefits.

3. Listen to company and union supporters who hide behind an alias while trying to explain what reality is like in their anonymous world.

I have no idea. Perhaps the management team should be fired for their failure to turn the ship around. After all, they stole from you and your co-workers in 2003 and then gave the money (and then some) to the oil companies. They sold tickets at low fares ever since September 14, 2001. Fares that haven't generated a dollar of net profit (in the aggregate) for the past five years or in the 6.5 years since September 11, 2001. And then they took their variable comp for three years in a row even though the company hasn't shown a profit. All while giving the rank and file NOTHING* in return.

*Well, not NOTHING, as we've covered that before - but since a majority of the rank and file is dissatisfied with the amount received compared to what management has received, we'll just stick with the inaccurate NOTHING for purposes of discussion.

Amazing how all six legacy airlines are run by incompetent morons. None of them have shown an aggregate profit for the past five years (or in the 6.5 years since September 11, 2001). What are the odds that six multi-billion companies dominating their industry would all be run by incompetent morons for so many years?

Sixteen months ago (late January, 2007), oil was just over $50/bbl and today it's approaching $130. And the incompetent morons at AA are solely to blame. After all, the overpaid management at UA, NW, DL, CO and US saw it coming and they're still wildly profitable, whoops, no, wait - they're losing their ass, too.

In good times, AA's lousy management looks to screw the TWU members, and they've become rather adept at it. Now that things look grim, I doubt AA's attitude toward its employees improves. Maybe if you DEMAND the return of all you gave up five years ago, AA will see the light and say "yes." I have no idea where AA gets the money to restore all the employee concessions - but like you and others have posted numerous times, that's not your concern. IMO, such a view lacks pragmatism, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

What to do? You've got to do what you think is best.

 

[local 12 proud]

IMO, there won't be a counter to the counter, mediation is next. It will last as long as it takes for things to turn around, if they ever do. In the meantime most likely there will be wholesale parking, closing of small stations, RIFs, reduced schedules and workloads.

If the economic turn around doesn't happen soon enough, AA will burn through the cash eventually filing BK. All our pensions will be turned over to PBGC. Sky is falling scenario? Maybe, but entriely possible.

I'm not advocating or promoting the offer, just being real. Unfortunately, upper management poisened the well of good will and another substandard agreements with their multimillion dollar bonuses and mismanagement of our great company.

Well bring it pup! Your still considered wet behind the ears by most on the floor.

Its over pal, were sick of the constant concessionary contracts.. got it?

Lay off half the work force if need be, at least when they re-call you may have a livable wage to come back too!

 

[3DUB]

That's just plain unrealistic. This industry has undergone radical and permanent change in the last decade. Costs are higher, fares are lower and any gains you want in your contract are going to have to be paid for somehow - i.e. by an increase in productivity.

Not trying to rain on the TWU parade here, but people have to understand that the game has changed. 2001 is in the past and it's going to stay there.

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YOU MUST BE A COMPANY PUPPET TRYING TO SELL US ON THIS DEAL??? I DON'T CARE IF YOU GAVE US 2001 CONTRACT I WOULD STILL VOTE "NO"!!! "WE SAVED THE COMPANY??? NOT MANAGEMENT! THEY ARE RUNNING IT INTO THE GROUND...

 

[DallasConehead]

Well bring it pup! Your still considered wet behind the ears by most on the floor.

Its over pal, were sick of the constant concessionary contracts.. got it?

Lay off half the work force if need be, at least when they re-call you may have a livable wage to come back too!

Wet behind the ears on this floor, yes. Still entitled to participate until the mods pull me off. We are all sick of industry losing agreements, including myself. Your correct, it certainly seems all is over except the upcoming pain.

As I said, not promoting or advocating, make your own decision and base it on the facts. Alas, you won't make the decision on your own, some members of the team decided it for you. Think about it, of the 2 scenarios i.e. reject it or send it out, which do you think took bigger stones?

Those team members that voted against sending it out pandered to the vocal minorities in their respective locals. Bottom line. Whats more, if they had sent it out and it was rejected, as it should have been, does it give a mandate to the committee by the membership?

Think....

BTW, I'll make sure YOU have a livable wage to come back to, they have to get all the way to the 3rd page to get to me so I'm not worried about the RIF, except for seeing my friends and colleagues go to the street..

 

[iluvaa]

if the execs didnt take there bonuses I think there might be a different attitude, but they did so guess what they sunk the ship not us. You anti worker boys on here (fwaa, frequent fly) we're saying just a few months ago that the bonuses were in there contract and we should have negotiated a better contract for ourselves. Now your saying we should be realistic about what we want. You talk out of both sides of your butt. twu informer is right you are nothing but people hired by the company to come on here and sell there crap.