Continental And The Twu

[Bob Owens]

I heard that Continental Ramp workers are to vote on the TWU this month.

It seems from the news article they may want a union because they felt they had no voice at the table when Continental wanted concessions.

Well getting a union is a good idea, BUT if you want a union, you do not want the TWU.

If you get the TWU you will likely give up more than you would without a union and you will pay two hours gross pay for that.

The TWU has been the industry leader in concessions for over 20 years.

The TWU is a company union. That may be why the company's resistance to the TWU is mild. I mean they have to make it seem like they dont want them but more than likely they have not been that agressive. After all, better to see you guys go to a company union like the TWU than to join a union that will really fight for you. "Heaven forbid they end up in the IBT or form a new union!"

The TWU will take your money and do nothing for you. Just look at American Airlines where the TWU gave AA the biggest concessions packge in history, more than either UAL, USAIR or even non union Continental or Delta asked from their employees.

Delta workers saw what the TWU was about and rejected them a few years back. The TWU spent $2 million trying to get dues from them.

The TWU wants your dues to fund their pay and perks.

Your dues will help fund the very generous pension that TWU International officers recieve-one where retirees from the International-not the dues paying members like you but officers that you can not vote for and their appointees who control the TWU, recieve, a defined benifit plan that gets increased 5% a year for the cost of living. Retired TWU International officers recieve greater raises than TWU members recieve. In order to fund that the TWU needs more dues payers.

The TWU is desperate for new dues payers to fund their pay and perks.

The average TWU member makes $15/hr. Less than the wage of the average non-union worker. In order to fund their perks they concentrate on just getting more and more people to pay dues. They do not fight for better pay and benifits for their members, again, look at the largest member of the TWU ATD-American Airlines, and look at what they gave back two years ago! The TWU gave the company EVERYTHING THEY WANTED! They spent the dues payers money in an effort to scare the members into accepting the concessions. Despite the huge dues funded campain by the TWU to scare the members into massive concessions it only passed by a slim margin.They set the standard for what your company is looking for from you!!! Why would you want to pay them two hours gross pay per month to give the company everything they want anyway?

The concentration on just getting more people to pay dues is why you will find a wide array of low paid workers in the TWU, from fishing reel manufacturers in Oklahoma, to the lowest paid baggage handlers in New York, to casino card dealers on Las Vegas. The TWU will allow anyone to fund the pay and perks of the International, and they will promise you anything to get you in.

Its easier to get the TWU in than to get it out.

Once you get the TWU in, its harder to get them out. So dont think "Lets get the TWU then just replace them if we dont like them". Organizing is tough to do. Changing from the TWU to another union would require you to get over 50% to sign cards calling for another union. In the meantime the TWU and the company will enlist the help of the NMB to block the vote by inflating the list. In other elections the TWU and its host company have included the names of dead workers, retired workers, management and even people who never worked for the company to stop the vote for a new union. The NMB usually helps keep more militant unions out of the industry.

Once you get the TWU in you cant go to another union in the AFL-CIO. So for fleet service workers it means that once you get the TWU in, you are stuck with them. The only way to get rid of them would be to start and fund a completely new union-a tremendous undertaking.

While I would think that getting in a union is a good idea picking the right union is just as, if not even more important if you want true representation. The TWU will not represent your interests. I was a Local officer under the TWU, elected by my peers. I saw first hand what goes on in this corrupt organization. While Locals within the union struggle to fight for their members the International uses their power to pursue their own agenda. The TWU removed me from my position. I stated to them that my primary duty is to the members I represent, not to the International. In their letter stating why I was removed from office they stated that my "admission (that I put the members first)violates my oath which requires loyalty to the International".


I am presently sueing the TWU for reinstatment and the right of my coworkers to be represented by who they chose-but the legal process takes time.
Again, by all means, GO UNION-just not the TWU.

 

[aetheling1]

Also when the TWU brings back one of their industry trailing contracts you must vote yes or their will be a revote on the exact same deal until you do vote yes. This happened at American Eagle last October. TWU has a reputation as a "ramper's union" but Eagle got the rampers the worse deal of all of the other groups that they represent at Eagle. The rampers turned it down. But even though their was federal mediation involved the mediator & company convinced the TWU that the rampers were ungrateful so the same deal was brought back last January.

To sell this "deal" to the members the union used the company powerpoint presention full of lies & distortions to show how grateful they should be. If the powerpoint presentation used was from the TWU it's even worse since the members dues were used to sell a bad contract that was already voted down. Amazingly one of the selling points to the contract was "since we (the TWU) negotiated away back pay, the longer you wait to sign this garbage the longer you wait for any raise at all." The raise ended up being 2% a year since their was no back pay and the amendable date was almost 2 years previous. Before anybody thinks 2% is better than a concession even after the raise the top out is $14.56 after 12 years. The old TWU contract started out barely above minimum wage & this was negotiated in the boom times of the late 1990's.

The AWA TWU ramp agreement was negotiated also in boom times & they top out at $14 & change an hour but they have 15 steps. They are renegotiating now but before anybody knows what they negotiate you will already be stuck with the TWU. If AWA merges with US airways the TWU rampers will get a big raise even after the IAM's 3 rounds of concessions.

Another thing: at Eagle the TWU will drop any grievance if there is any kind of back pay the company would have to pay. They talk big & huff & puff like the company is on the ropes but as the months roll by they quietly let it drop. The TWU will not rock any boat with management & I guess back pay must rock the boat.

If you vote in the TWU you will regret it until you quit or retire since you wont' be able to kick them out. Like Bob said the IBT would be better but they prob won't get involved since the TWU is a sister AFLCIO union (at least for now). Since it's too late for the IBT to break away from the AFLCIO before this vote I would strongly suggest to vote no union or write in the Allied Ground Workers and give them a chance. I'm not sure of the procedure so don't ruin you ballot. I promise they can't do worse than the slugs at the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

Also when the TWU brings back one of their industry trailing contracts you must vote yes or their will be a revote on the exact same deal until you do vote yes. This happened at American Eagle last October.

They called it a "second chance vote in the TWU Express.

TWU has a reputation as a "ramper's union" but Eagle got the rampers the worse deal of all of the other groups that they represent at Eagle.

Well that what many mechanics claim but thats not really the case. You could claim that its a dispatchers union. Dispatchers usually do better than other TWU represented groups.

The rampers turned it down. But even though their was federal mediation involved the mediator & company convinced the TWU that the rampers were ungrateful so the same deal was brought back last January.

I'll bet it didnt take much. More than likely the International "convinced " your Local that they were being "ungrateful".

To sell this "deal" to the members the union used the company powerpoint presention full of lies & distortions to show how grateful they should be.

They pretty much did the same thing at AA. AA hired a firm called "Eclat" (which translates into "scandal") to convince the unions to give concessions. Then the TWU hired the same firm to do the same to the members.

If the powerpoint presentation used was from the TWU it's even worse since the members dues were used to sell a bad contract that was already voted down.

Knowing the TWU they probably paid the company for it with your dues.
Amazingly one of the selling points to the contract was "since we (the TWU) negotiated away back pay, the longer you wait to sign this garbage the longer you wait for any raise at all." The raise ended up being 2% a year since their was no back pay and the amendable date was almost 2 years previous. Before anybody thinks 2% is better than a concession even after the raise the top out is $14.56 after 12 years. The old TWU contract started out barely above minimum wage & this was negotiated in the boom times of the late 1990's.

Wasnt that Jim Littles first big deal?

The AWA TWU ramp agreement was negotiated also in boom times & they top out at $14 & change an hour but they have 15 steps. They are renegotiating now but before anybody knows what they negotiate you will already be stuck with the TWU. If AWA merges with US airways the TWU rampers will get a big raise even after the IAM's 3 rounds of concessions.

Another thing: at Eagle the TWU will drop any grievance if there is any kind of back pay the company would have to pay. They talk big & huff & puff like the company is on the ropes but as the months roll by they quietly let it drop. The TWU will not rock any boat with management & I guess back pay must rock the boat.

If you vote in the TWU you will regret it until you quit or retire since you wont' be able to kick them out. Like Bob said the IBT would be better but they prob won't get involved since the TWU is a sister AFLCIO union (at least for now). Since it's too late for the IBT to break away from the AFLCIO before this vote I would strongly suggest to vote no union or write in the Allied Ground Workers and give them a chance. I'm not sure of the procedure so don't ruin you ballot. I promise they can't do worse than the slugs at the TWU.

[post="277902"][/post]​

 

[MQrampBOS]

Why did we vote on the same contract we rejected? Well, we saw what was going on with Eagle FAs, who have been without a contract for about 3 years now and in mediation for over 2. We were told right off the bat we would not be released for a long, long time, and the company was going nowhere, so the thought was "something's better than nothing." We at least talked it down to 3 years. Sure, this contract sucks, but it beats being locked in mediation for years without anything. We start negotiations again in late 2006. Hopefully this move paid off and we'll get more money.

"Another thing: at Eagle the TWU will drop any grievance if there is any kind of back pay the company would have to pay. They talk big & huff & puff like the company is on the ropes but as the months roll by they quietly let it drop. The TWU will not rock any boat with management & I guess back pay must rock the boat."

Not true. BOS had 32 separate grievances over back pay at once. The majority of them were rightful, and were actually awarded by the company. In fact, most back pay grievances at BOS are awarded by the company prior to system board. I had one that went to system board and I won a 3-1 decision. Don't think the TWU drops all back pay grievances, because they don't.

 

[aetheling1]

Why did we vote on the same contract we rejected? Well, we saw what was going on with Eagle FAs, who have been without a contract for about 3 years now and in mediation for over 2.

This was taken straight from the company/TWU powerpoint and was false. Amendable date of the Flight attendent contract was 9/2002 & it went to mediation 11/2003. The time this powerpoint was made was 11 or 12/2004, so how have the flight attendents been without a contract for 3 yrs? And how were they in mediation for 2 yrs? Do the math & it was 2 yrs past amendable date & 1 yr in mediation. Unfortunately the voters that switched from no to yes didn't take the time to do their own research & took the TWU/Company at their word.

We were told right off the bat we would not be released for a long, long time, and the company was going nowhere, so the thought was "something's better than nothing."

Told by whom? They only met once with the mediator! Doesn't the mediator mediate between the company's offer & the union offer? Why didn't you give them a chance? The agreement would have to be more than the company was offering. This was not supposed to be a concessionary agreement because Eagle makes money, never paid their workers anything, and has no pension or retirement medical liabilities (except for executives). An extra buck an hour for topped out rampers was all you were asking for. Now you'll never know what you could have gotten. It's the union's job to get the members what they ask for and mediation is one way to do it. Revoting until you give the International the desired results smacks of corruption.

And BTW, if you've been following the AE flight attendent negotiations it looks like their "mediated" stance may pay off. About 20% raises right off the bat. TWU gave away back pay & got nothing in return. This way the union & the company could say "the longer you say no the less money you'll end up with". Whatever happened to back pay? It seems to me this is a strong motivator for the company to come to an agreement since the longer they wait would cost THEM money, not the workers. Why didn't the TWU say during mediation that back pay is back on the table if you don't give us more money?

Should the slogan of the TWU now be "something's better than nothing"? You could get that without a union.

We at least talked it down to 3 years.

3 yrs + nearly 2 yrs under the old contract = 5 yrs. Nothing for the TWU to brag about. That 4% raise translated to about 2%.

Sure, this contract sucks, but it beats being locked in mediation for years without anything. We start negotiations again in late 2006. Hopefully this move paid off and we'll get more money.

The more well known TWU slogan "we'll get 'em next time!"

Not true. BOS had 32 separate grievances over back pay at once. The majority of them were rightful, and were actually awarded by the company. In fact, most back pay grievances at BOS are awarded by the company prior to system board. I had one that went to system board and I won a 3-1 decision. Don't think the TWU drops all back pay grievances, because they don't.

I can only speak for the DFW local (575). I'm not in a union so I admit I don't understand everything about grievances but I know of 3 cases for an individual that were filed & as the months dragged by they were all dropped. On the second grievance they only said "the company says we're wrong". No forms, memos, or letters from the union or the company. No system board I guess either. The 3rd grievance was also dropped and no paperwork received. Maybe this is unique for Dallas.

I must admit I was pretty surprised to hear from a AE TWU ramper defend this agreement! In Boston doesn't working at some fast food places pay more than AE rampers make?

Continental rampers: the TWU did make some good arguments for joining a union, but you'll be sorry if you pick the TWU. Once they're in you won't get them out. You'll only support the International officers' pension plans, which are "industry leading" I understand. And all they ask for in return is that you keep revoting until you say "yes".

[post="281039"][/post]​

 

[MQrampBOS]

I can only speak for the DFW local (575). I'm not in a union so I admit I don't understand everything about grievances but I know of 3 cases for an individual that were filed & as the months dragged by they were all dropped. On the second grievance they only said "the company says we're wrong". No forms, memos, or letters from the union or the company. No system board I guess either. The 3rd grievance was also dropped and no paperwork received. Maybe this is unique for Dallas.

[post="281109"][/post]​

Yeah, the 575 is pretty much pro-company, so I'm not surprised there.

I must admit I was pretty surprised to hear from a AE TWU ramper defend this agreement! In Boston doesn't working at some fast food places pay more than AE rampers make?

[post="281109"][/post]​

No. We start at a higher step than the rest of the system. Fast food joints are still starting around $7.50/hr. Either isn't enough to survive up here.

Most of your other points I can see (we've been kept in the dark about the FAs recently), but this particular bargaining unit is controlled by DFW, so unfortunately what they say goes. Personally, I'd rather have this contract than none at all. Most of us aren't topped out in BOS, so we were seeing raises anyway (getting wiped out by increases in health insurance). I'm not happy with what we got, but it's what we got and we have to live with it. "We'll get 'em next time" is better than "We're shutting down your station."

 

[Bob Owens]

Yeah, the 575 is pretty much pro-company, so I'm not surprised there.

No. We start at a higher step than the rest of the system. Fast food joints are still starting around $7.50/hr. Either isn't enough to survive up here.

Most of your other points I can see (we've been kept in the dark about the FAs recently), but this particular bargaining unit is controlled by DFW, so unfortunately what they say goes. Personally, I'd rather have this contract than none at all. Most of us aren't topped out in BOS, so we were seeing raises anyway (getting wiped out by increases in health insurance). I'm not happy with what we got, but it's what we got and we have to live with it. "We'll get 'em next time" is better than "We're shutting down your station."

[post="281636"][/post]​

You start at a higher step because otherwise the company could not get anybody. You top out at the same rate dont you?

By the way Continentals workers rejected the TWU.

From Marketwatch:

"Continental Airlines said Thursday that its field service employees have rejected representation by the Transport Workers Union of America. The carrier said the union filed for an application in April with the National Mediation Board to hold an election on the issue."

The Teamsters have left the AFL-CIO. This could provide us the opportunity to do what should have been done years ago. We should dump all the unions that keep us all seperated and get into one union for the industry.