EIT or TWU

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
The TWU you pay for, the EIT costs you nothing.


In the EIT the company allows employees to send EIT representatives to the company.
However the company reserves the right to reject that representative if they actually fight for their coworkers.


In the TWU the members can vote for Local representatives-not International representatives. All the power of the union lies in the International.

The TWU, despite its claims does not believe in democracy.In fact just a few weeks ago Jim Little told a shop steward that "democracy is not the best way" to pick leaders. A year ago the TWU cited that their ability to prevent a vote, to deny democracy, as a MAJOR VICTORY.

Just like Continental can reject EIT representatives who dont go with the company flow the TWU International rejects leaders who dont go with the Internationals pro-company flow.Often the TWU will work hand in hand with the company to fire those who really try and fight for the members, case in point is the old board of NY TWU Local 501. The TWU just settled a lawsuit by admitting their guilt and paying them an undisclosed sum for violating their rights and working with the company to fire them on trumped up charges.

So there is not much difference in what Continental did to Lonnie Chambers and what the TWU did to the guys from TWU Local 501. If you get the TWU you will not see much of a difference in your working conditions either, except for the fact that now you have to pay dues.

The TWU spends millions of dollars settling lawsuits brought on by their own members for DFR violations. Thats where much of your dues money will end up-protecting crooked leaders who screw over their own members. And they will be using your money to keep you from hearing about it.

The TWU even attempted to get a court order preventing me from posting what I know about them on this website!!! The Judge laughed at them, called the motion childish and threw it out.

Unfortunately, since the TWU used membership money and fought LM-2 revisions that require unions to itemize anything over $5000, members can not find out how crooks like those in the TWU use the members money to cover up their anti-member activities. We can not give exact amounts of exactly how much the TWU pays out. When these cases are settled and the money is paid out the TWU gets gag orders that seal the case.

Thats what your dues money will get you with the TWU.

By all means go union, but the TWU is not a union, its a business. They collect fees and pursue their own objectives with your money. The average wage of the TWU membership is far below the average overall wage of the American Workforce. The average wage of a TWU member is somewhere around $15/hr while the average overall wage for an American worker is around $17/hr and the average TWU members wage is declining faster than the average workers wage. However thats not the case for International officers of the TWU. Their wages go up faster than anybody elses and even when they retire you get to pay for a 5% COLA that they get every year.


To make up for lost dues revenue due to declining wages and the increased cost of the Internationals expanding wages and benifits the TWU despetately needs more dues payers.

The TWU operates on the Walmart theory of marketing, applied to unionism, sell more for less, make it up on the bottom line through volume, but what the TWU is discounting is your labor.

Just as Walmarts theory is great for Walmart, and consumers, but killing those who provide the products they sell the TWUs practice of Industry leading concessions is great for the International and the companies , providing the International with huge salaries, generous perks, and providing the company with cheap labor, but its killing their members standard of living. They want quantity of members, not quality of wages..

You dont get much out of the EIT, you wont get much out of the TWU either, the difference is that one is free so you dont expect much but the other actually costs you money.

In the TWU express Lonnie Chambers is quoted "A lot of guys ask , 'whats the union going to do for me'? I tell them that when the union comes in , you are the union, What then will you do for yoursellf?"

Sorry Lonnie, thats not true. You see I was a TWU Local leader. The International pulled me out of office because I fought for my members. My coworkers elected me twice, by wide margins. During my trial the International demanded to know where my loyalties lie, I told them my loyalties lie with the members who elected me . The Internationals response was that, and I quote from their own written document "These admissions constitute a repudiation of his oath of office". Why? because the oath of office "requires allegience to the International" first and foremost. In fact the members are not even mentioned in the oath. Look at that TWU Constitution, they really dont grant the members any rights, all the power is in the International and the members can not vote for International officers, the only people who can vote for International officers have to take an oath pledging allegience to those same officers!



Sorry, the truth is what it is. Lonnies statement about "what then do you want to do for yourself" pretty much sums up the TWU. Despite the fact that they take your money they will not provide, nor will they let you provide yourselves with, any leadership, in fact they will thwart it, just like now, it will be up to you, alone, what you do with yourself. If you try and make change when you get the TWU in you will be fighting two entities instead of one, the company and the TWU.

Get a union, but not the TWU.
 
The TWU you pay for, the EIT costs you nothing.
In the EIT the company allows employees to send EIT representatives to the company.
However the company reserves the right to reject that representative if they actually fight for their coworkers.
In the TWU the members can vote for Local representatives-not International representatives. All the power of the union lies in the International.

The TWU, despite its claims does not believe in democracy.In fact just a few weeks ago Jim Little told a shop steward that "democracy is not the best way" to pick leaders. A year ago the TWU cited that their ability to prevent a vote, to deny democracy, as a MAJOR VICTORY.

Just like Continental can reject EIT representatives who dont go with the company flow the TWU International rejects leaders who dont go with the Internationals pro-company flow.Often the TWU will work hand in hand with the company to fire those who really try and fight for the members, case in point is the old board of NY TWU Local 501. The TWU just settled a lawsuit by admitting their guilt and paying them an undisclosed sum for violating their rights and working with the company to fire them on trumped up charges.

So there is not much difference in what Continental did to Lonnie Chambers and what the TWU did to the guys from TWU Local 501. If you get the TWU you will not see much of a difference in your working conditions either, except for the fact that now you have to pay dues.

The TWU spends millions of dollars settling lawsuits brought on by their own members for DFR violations. Thats where much of your dues money will end up-protecting crooked leaders who screw over their own members. And they will be using your money to keep you from hearing about it.

The TWU even attempted to get a court order preventing me from posting what I know about them on this website!!! The Judge laughed at them, called the motion childish and threw it out.

Unfortunately, since the TWU used membership money and fought LM-2 revisions that require unions to itemize anything over $5000, members can not find out how crooks like those in the TWU use the members money to cover up their anti-member activities. We can not give exact amounts of exactly how much the TWU pays out. When these cases are settled and the money is paid out the TWU gets gag orders that seal the case.

Thats what your dues money will get you with the TWU.

By all means go union, but the TWU is not a union, its a business. They collect fees and pursue their own objectives with your money. The average wage of the TWU membership is far below the average overall wage of the American Workforce. The average wage of a TWU member is somewhere around $15/hr while the average overall wage for an American worker is around $17/hr and the average TWU members wage is declining faster than the average workers wage. However thats not the case for International officers of the TWU. Their wages go up faster than anybody elses and even when they retire you get to pay for a 5% COLA that they get every year.
To make up for lost dues revenue due to declining wages and the increased cost of the Internationals expanding wages and benifits the TWU despetately needs more dues payers.

The TWU operates on the Walmart theory of marketing, applied to unionism, sell more for less, make it up on the bottom line through volume, but what the TWU is discounting is your labor.

Just as Walmarts theory is great for Walmart, and consumers, but killing those who provide the products they sell the TWUs practice of Industry leading concessions is great for the International and the companies , providing the International with huge salaries, generous perks, and providing the company with cheap labor, but its killing their members standard of living. They want quantity of members, not quality of wages..

You dont get much out of the EIT, you wont get much out of the TWU either, the difference is that one is free so you dont expect much but the other actually costs you money.

In the TWU express Lonnie Chambers is quoted "A lot of guys ask , 'whats the union going to do for me'? I tell them that when the union comes in , you are the union, What then will you do for yoursellf?"

Sorry Lonnie, thats not true. You see I was a TWU Local leader. The International pulled me out of office because I fought for my members. My coworkers elected me twice, by wide margins. During my trial the International demanded to know where my loyalties lie, I told them my loyalties lie with the members who elected me . The Internationals response was that, and I quote from their own written document "These admissions constitute a repudiation of his oath of office". Why? because the oath of office "requires allegience to the International" first and foremost. In fact the members are not even mentioned in the oath. Look at that TWU Constitution, they really dont grant the members any rights, all the power is in the International and the members can not vote for International officers, the only people who can vote for International officers have to take an oath pledging allegience to those same officers!
Sorry, the truth is what it is. Lonnies statement about "what then do you want to do for yourself" pretty much sums up the TWU. Despite the fact that they take your money they will not provide, nor will they let you provide yourselves with, any leadership, in fact they will thwart it, just like now, it will be up to you, alone, what you do with yourself. If you try and make change when you get the TWU in you will be fighting two entities instead of one, the company and the TWU.

Get a union, but not the TWU.[/quote
what is your stake in a cal union vote? sounds like someone from TWU pee'd in your corn flakes! or, are you actually a member of CAL management? :shock:
 
duh,
the EIT makes only promises and is purely an extension of management ..... the union negotiates a legal/binding contact that is voted upon by its members
 
duh,
the EIT makes only promises and is purely an extension of management ..... the union negotiates a legal/binding contact that is voted upon by its members
bob, you are so very observant! your quote, " the twu is a bussiness" is laughable..... duh, i thought unions were charities...... :lol:
 
bob, you are so very observant! your quote, " the twu is a bussiness" is laughable..... duh, i thought unions were charities...... :lol:
Well duh, unions, like charities are Non-profit institutions that are supposed to exist for the benifit of its members. So yes, they are supposed to be more like charities than for-profit businesses.

The TWU exists for the benifit of the International officers that run it. While its members have seen huge concessions none of the International officers have seen their dues funded TWU pay or benifits decreased,in fact they continue to get huge increases, and they earn considerably more than their members do.Instead of trying to get us better pay they simply go out and try to sucker more people into forking over dues. This way they can continue to get raises while their members take paycuts.

You ask what stake I have in the Continental vote. I'll tell you what stake I have. I am a unionist. While Jim Little and the TWU tell me that You and other workers are my enemy, because you have a different employer and/or a different union, I see you as a fellow worker. I believe that you have no desire to beat me in a race to the bottom. I believe that if your wages are driven down it will hurt my ability to command a higher wage, in other words an "Injury to one is an injury to all". I believe that we, airline workers, must work together(in other words Solidarity, another Union idea that exists only in rhetorical form with the TWU) with each other to establish and standardize wages so that our compensation is no longer the preferred route to competative advantage. The TWU believes that working with the company by selling out the members is the way to go, and I know, I've been a TWU member for over 20 years,and a TWU officer.

The TWU Internbational removed me from office for publically criticizing the concessions and those who imposed the concessions. During my trial they asked me where my loyalties were, with the International or with the members, I stated that my loyalties lie with the people who elected me, the TWU Internatioanl stated in their final decision "That admission constitutes a violation of your oath of office which requires Loyalty to the International". So much for the members having a voice when the elected reps have to put the International ahead of the members. So if you get the TWU, those you elect will have to swear an oath of allegence to John Conley, an appointed International official from American Airlines who is still an American Airlines employee on union leave who may or may not in addition to still retaining benifits from AA may also still be recieving a paycheck from AA.(see; http://www.dol-esa.gov/sr_lookup/pdf/lm30/...12_31_2005.pdf) If they dont do as he says, the International will remove them.

Airline workers need to consolidate. We need to get into Democratic unions that posess the resources and the will to organize the whole industry into ONE UNION. Only then will we see significant restoration. The TWU lacks both. It would be a tragedy to see you guys make the right decision with the wrong organization.

http://www.dol-esa.gov/sr_lookup/pdf/lm30/..._12_31_2005.pdf

This is a link to the LM-30, a form filed with the Federal Government. Note that John Conley, the one who has already been appointed to run Continental, without any input from the workers at Continental, is an American Airlines employee.You should also note that the A-5 passes that he describes are AA Company business passes, passes that the company uses to send workers on company busness on AA flights. In other words he uses these passes on AA company business. Employees not doing company business (pleasure, etc) travel on "D" passes.
 
The only time that too much democracy can become a problem is when proceedural motions hold up decisions or action indefinitly. The point Bob is making with the ATD is that in the last ten years we have been basically locked into 2 five year agreements that with 1.5% colas and work rule changes that have kept our total compensation static at 1994 levels. Under the 2001 agreement that was pulled in 2003 our compensation would be approx 25% higher than now. The companys' negotiation opener coming up will be to offer a fixed amount and leave it up to us to divide it. A true union opener is to go for the bank. We can't even get our uniforms washed- what do you think is going to happen?
 
The only time that too much democracy can become a problem is when proceedural motions hold up decisions or action indefinitly. The point Bob is making with the ATD is that in the last ten years we have been basically locked into 2 five year agreements that with 1.5% colas and work rule changes that have kept our total compensation static at 1994 levels. Under the 2001 agreement that was pulled in 2003 our compensation would be approx 25% higher than now. The companys' negotiation opener coming up will be to offer a fixed amount and leave it up to us to divide it. A true union opener is to go for the bank. We can't even get our uniforms washed- what do you think is going to happen?
In 2008 our compensation will be approximately 40% below what it was in the beginning of 2003. A rough estimate would be that we are making about half what we were in the early 80s when you factor in benifit losses.
 
In 2008 our compensation will be approximately 40% below what it was in the beginning of 2003. A rough estimate would be that we are making about half what we were in the early 80s when you factor in benifit losses.
bob, kev i saw in the other thread we all agree, we have all been had!!!! the fix is in!!!!!!! this is not about the various unions or which airline you work for. this is a class struggle between the have's and the have nots..... the airline industry is just a microcosm of society as a whole ......i crunched my projected buying power adjusted to the current rate of inflation and i will bee at 47 percent in 2007. currently i am at the same pay rate as in 1997 (not including any adjustment for annual inflation) the have's used to keep the have not's from uniting simply by keeping them divided by racial ,religous or cultural lines!!!!!! in this day and age, that is not very effective but, it worked long enough to get such a grip on the money/power, i think any attepmt to change things will be futile!!!!!!!!! i have a side job but, if i look back over that past 15 years without it, i would have gone from middle class into the lower class. will one of you cut and paste this into the other topic board?
thanx......... :eek:
 
I hope CAL goes union, and I don't want anyone to think that because anyone at aa complains that means we at aa are anti-union. It's that only 20 years ago the operation would have been shut down for far less than what is happening now. And that as the quality of who will take this job declines we who are dedicated to this career have to do more and more to pick up the slack. And it is getting old.
 
I hope CAL goes union, and I don't want anyone to think that because anyone at aa complains that means we at aa are anti-union. It's that only 20 years ago the operation would have been shut down for far less than what is happening now. And that as the quality of who will take this job declines we who are dedicated to this career have to do more and more to pick up the slack. And it is getting old.
bagbelt,
we are in 100% agreement on that! my previous post is all i have left to say. :shock:
hope you all have happy lives and prosperous careers! :)