"Cost neutral!"

[autofixer]

The real kick in the teeth to the East Pilots is this: West Pilots make considerably more than East Pilots and they get a 6% pay raise at the end of this month. The Greedy bastage Doug, will not even talk to us and takes bonus for being the greedy piece of $h%t that he and his ilk are. Enough is enough.

Pitguy, it is not a job action; again, we are simply flying as we were trained by the company. As far a firing me, big deal! MY wife knows that I HATE this job and I am looking for something else (probably another business opportunity). It is not like the job is all that great anymore!

 

[nostradamus]

BluePacific,
I agree with your post and realize their is no future for maintenance in PIT. Please do not be confused abut my handle. I do not live in Pittsburgh. I may not like the global economy, but I make nice money off of it. I reinvented myself quite awhile back. If you can’t beat 'em then join 'em. It would suck to be one of those dime a dozen pilots right now.

Pitguy post in 2005

post Mar 22 2005, 02:41 PM
Post #30


Veteran
*****

Group: Registered Member
Posts: 1,506
Joined: 21-August 02
Member No.: 436

I hear from both sides of the fence what is going on. I still get calls from my old colleagues asking my advice on business decisions at U. For me to name them on this public forum would be a travesty and something I would never do to these people whom for years have placed trust in me. Sorry!
I am not saying you are taking more concessions. What I am saying is there are verbal talks and people have been approached about the cost of fuel and the burn rate of cash and the need for more money. Will it come to fruitation? I do not know. I do know statistically if the pilot group does not give more money the days are numbered at U. The cost of fuel and weak bookings amongst the many other issues are starting to pile dirt on top of U's grave. The best shot U has at making it alone right now is 20%. Odds are great the assets will be sold or the airline will be piece mealed. Also odds are great that no one has any interest in taking on the pilot group as employees. I bet by the end of summer you may wish you gave more.
Tic…………..toc……………..tic……………toc…………………… "


Now you think pilots are a dime a dozen. Your above post last year you were begging pilots to take a cut to save you. You think you are a great union guy asking other unions to take a cut?

 

[767jetz]

Show me the stats that show 2 engine taxie is SAFER then single! You're a professional, you should know that.

Well, let's see...

Ever see an airplane skid off a wet taxiway due to differential thrust? I have.

Ever ever see a cart or person fly across a ramp and cause damage or injury because of the extra thrust required from single engine ops in a ramp area? I have.

Ever see a crew try to take off with only one engine running? I have.

I'm not saying it's dangerous to taxi on one engine. But there are certainly more risks, and taxiing with both engines running IS safer every single time.

 

[pitguy]

nostradamus states """Now you think pilots are a dime a dozen. Your above post last year you were begging pilots to take a cut to save you. You think you are a great union guy asking other unions to take a cut?"""


nostradamus,
One problem with your above quote. I don't work for U.
Although I do feel the other groups have taken big enough cuts. I can still find tons of pilots to replace you. That is a fact. In the other positions it is getting hard to find people to fill those positions since the pay is so low now. Simple supply and demand. A dime for a dozen.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Well, let's see...

Ever see an airplane skid off a wet taxiway due to differential thrust? I have.

Ever ever see a cart or person fly across a ramp and cause damage or injury because of the extra thrust required from single engine ops in a ramp area? I have.

Ever see a crew try to take off with only one engine running? I have.

I'm not saying it's dangerous to taxi on one engine. But there are certainly more risks, and taxiing with both engines running IS safer every single time.

Has there ever been a study done which accurately measures fuel consumption on single engine versus two engine taxis? The extra thrust required to get the airplane moving with one engine versus two is quite noticeable. Unless there is an hour line up on the taxi way I don't see how single engine provides any fuel savings. What a single engine does do is put side loads on the fuselage and gear assembly and makes life difficult for those poor saps on the ramp who are in the vicinity of the operating engine.

If management wants to save fuel, how about adding a few gate agents and rampers so that an aircraft is not ever stopped a 100 feet from the gate waiting for rampers or parked at the gate waiting for a jet way driver.

 

[BluePacific]

My, my, aren’t you the condescending one! Normally I wouldn’t even respond to an asinine comment like yours, but you really struck a nerve. You are sorry that it is tough for someone other than yourself; that is might big hearted of you. So you spent time and money qualifying on a specific type of aircraft; you still had to fly as a F/O first. So you have an education, big freaking deal! What gives you the right to assume that anyone has a 12th grade GED? What a pompous A$$!

Hey buddy, I was only referring to what the job required for getting hired and why it pays what it does. Do baggage handlers get paid more if they are PhDs? Nope.
We have pilots who are medical doctors and lawyers, they still get the same pay I do. Their education beyond what the job requires means squat when it comes to pay.
Most jobs, union ones anyway, pay what the lowest education level required to get the job allows.

$10 an hour jobs with benefits better than airline jobs are everywhere. It wasnt aways that way but I don't think that's going to change now.

 

[nostradamus]

nostradamus states """Now you think pilots are a dime a dozen. Your above post last year you were begging pilots to take a cut to save you. You think you are a great union guy asking other unions to take a cut?"""
nostradamus,
One problem with your above quote. I don't work for U.
Although I do feel the other groups have taken big enough cuts. I can still find tons of pilots to replace you. That is a fact. In the other positions it is getting hard to find people to fill those positions since the pay is so low now. Simple supply and demand. A dime for a dozen.

Envy is the most stupid of vices, for there is no single advantage to be gained from it. ~Honore de Balzac

 

[pitguy]

nostradamus,
Please explain to me why I am envious.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

nostradamus,
Please explain to me why I am envious.

How would he know why you are envious? its obvious to everyone reading your comments that you are.

 

[pitguy]

oldiebutgoody,
I am not that way nor do I have any reason to be that way over SCAB pilots. Being older and unable to change your life now must be hard on you. I am young and was able to change my destiny and have no reason to be jealous over some smuck traveling around in cheap hotels with a lame pension and benefits plan. The pilots that had options left the company. Now what are still here are the loser types that could not make it anywhere else. Some tried and had to return with their head hung low. I wouldn’t take a pay cut to be in your ranks, but I do enjoy stroking your fragile ego often. You’re to easy there old man letting this young guy play you like an old worn out fiddle.

 

[700IAM]

oldiebutgoody,
I am not that way nor do I have any reason to be that way over SCAB pilots. Being older and unable to change your life now must be hard on you. I am young and was able to change my destiny and have no reason to be jealous over some smuck traveling around in cheap hotels with a lame pension and benefits plan. The pilots that had options left the company. Now what are still here are the loser types that could not make it anywhere else. Some tried and had to return with their head hung low. I wouldn’t take a pay cut to be in your ranks, but I do enjoy stroking your fragile ego often. You’re to easy there old man letting this young guy play you like an old worn out fiddle.

I liked you a lot more when you were humble and in control of your ego.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Sorry to show you wrong again, but I left the business years ago. Myself and everyone else reading your comments can see your bitterness, and usually this is a sign of envy, as others have brought to your attention. I was merely stating the obvious. By the way, the whole SCAB thing that you refer to was between the unions, not the pilots or mechanics. Pilots COULD NOT HAVE walked off the job once their union did not support the mechanic strike. Pilots were not given a vote on that issue. I saw the whole thing. the issues at the time were ridiculous to me anyway, and it took two bankruptcies for most of them to get corrected, all because cooler minds didn't prevail years ago. Anybody with any sense knows that in business, whatever the competition does, you have to do better and cheaper. If pilots will do the job cheaper, go hire them. It's getting to the point that any pilot that can do anything else is probably doing it by now, so the industry will be operated by the dregs of the pilots. If the traveling public sees no value in judgement, airmanship and experience, then so be it. Personally, knowing the job and the industry, I do value those traits, and my choice of airlines will always reflect that. Same goes for mechanics and everyone else the company has representing them.

 

[AllegiantBinJunky]

My, my, aren’t you the condescending one! Normally I wouldn’t even respond to an asinine comment like yours, but you really struck a nerve. You are sorry that it is tough for someone other than yourself; that is might big hearted of you. So you spent time and money qualifying on a specific type of aircraft; you still had to fly as a F/O first. So you have an education, big freaking deal! What gives you the right to assume that anyone has a 12th grade GED? What a pompous A$$! You give pilots a bad name and perpetuate the; “I am better than youâ€, myth some flyboys have earned. You are so full of yourself that you couldn’t possibly be full of crap, there is no room. Did you ever consider that the ramper might be going to college and getting the education you mock? Does a GED make that person less intelligent? I’d like to see you bust your hump for a couple of weeks in the bag pit during the summer. Then you might have the right to whine. Obviously, your degree had nothing to do with interpersonal relationship skills, or was that a day you skipped class? Do you think that you are the only one that ever came into their field of endeavor fully qualified? Given enough time, you could teach a monkey to fly, or were you possibly the initial subject for that theory? Never look down on anyone’s job; someday it might be yours. Thank heaven that not all pilots have your attitude.

Me, I was born with an attitude and have perfected it through the years. By the way I have a high school diploma, a college degree, my FAA airframe and power plant certificate and over 40 years experience on aircraft. In my opinion, you owe the ramper an apology. Don’t expect one from me!

To the other pilots that read this post, please do not take this personally. My ire is directed to Blue Pacific alone.

I just chimed in here to say thank you. Being a ramper myself (and private pilot entering the Mesa Pilot Program) appreciate everything you had to say. There is a lot of good rampers, and some bad ones. There is a lot of good pilots, and some bad ones. Rampers and pilots just need to come at peace with one another and not let "ego's" come between what could be good friends.

Scott

 

[BluePacific]

Sorry to show you wrong again, but I left the business years ago. Myself and everyone else reading your comments can see your bitterness, and usually this is a sign of envy, as others have brought to your attention. I was merely stating the obvious. By the way, the whole SCAB thing that you refer to was between the unions, not the pilots or mechanics. Pilots COULD NOT HAVE walked off the job once their union did not support the mechanic strike. Pilots were not given a vote on that issue. I saw the whole thing. the issues at the time were ridiculous to me anyway, and it took two bankruptcies for most of them to get corrected, all because cooler minds didn't prevail years ago. Anybody with any sense knows that in business, whatever the competition does, you have to do better and cheaper. If pilots will do the job cheaper, go hire them. It's getting to the point that any pilot that can do anything else is probably doing it by now, so the industry will be operated by the dregs of the pilots. If the traveling public sees no value in judgement, airmanship and experience, then so be it. Personally, knowing the job and the industry, I do value those traits, and my choice of airlines will always reflect that. Same goes for mechanics and everyone else the company has representing them.

It is fun to watch PITGUY 'eat' himself over time and never come to the correct conclusion.OLDIEBUTGOODY found it for him. The pilot group never had a say in anything concerning the IAM strike in '92. We just did our job, while the mechs destroyed equipment, cut wireing in aircraft and were arrested in PIT for trying to sneek onto the Airport ............. all fact, as the media reported it !??!
The big problem is so many feel they need to try and destroy what they use to be part of.....while those of us who stayed, are at least trying to make it work for ourselves, our families and all who had the grit to carry on, or in some cases, nowhere else to go.
PITGUY, let it fly ..... I sometimes think you may be 700UW/LAVMAN...........the style and insulting way is much the same.
Take care guys, I'm tired and am going to sleep.

TTFN I can't wait for PHX, I've had enough of the East coast.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

I just chimed in here to say thank you. Being a ramper myself (and private pilot entering the Mesa Pilot Program) appreciate everything you had to say. There is a lot of good rampers, and some bad ones. There is a lot of good pilots, and some bad ones. Rampers and pilots just need to come at peace with one another and not let "ego's" come between what could be good friends.

Scott

I have been around fighter pilots with attitudes for a long time and I understand the reason they have one.

I read Blue Pacific's post a number of times, just to make sure I wasn't reading more into it than was there. My conlusion was he posted how he felt. In turn so did I. He posted back to me on the 19th. Every time I try to answer his post I get kicked off the page. Maybe I am being blocked, I don't know, tried to respond at home and at work to no avail. Just wanted him to know that I'm not his "Buddy" and I still think my assesment of him was correct. But he is entitled to his opinion also.