Could Pennsylvania build a New INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

[wings396]

This is not a matter of what can be done, but more of who will take the first step to do it. The city won't do anything as long as the cash keeps rolling in from the tennants and their associated taxes. The PHL Airport just put plain and simple SUX...
I agree that nothing can be done about the ATC airspace situation, but the ramp congestion and shoddy terminal can be greatly improved with a new facilty. Many large airports have built new facilities to accomidate growth. Just to name a few that come to mind over the years..
LGA, PIT, ATL, DEN, CVG, DFW,PVD. These are just a few examples that come to mind, and I'm sure there are many more that I didn't list. When I fly, I do ALL possible to stay clear of PHL at all costs....

 

[libertybell]

PHL should have bought the old Westinghouse Factory and its land, knocked it down and expanded the airport.

With the recent Supreme Court Ruling not to long ago could the state of Pa use Imenent Domain and kick residents out of homes in Tinicum Township? That seems the most logical place to expand to Build a new Super Terminal it has easy access to 95 and 291 rail line as well.
Then when the New Termianl is completed tear down the A thru F and now you have plenty of space for runways!

 

[PHL]

With the recent Supreme Court Ruling not to long ago could the state of Pa use Imenent Domain and kick residents out of homes in Tinicum Township? That seems the most logical place to expand to Build a new Super Terminal it has easy access to 95 and 291 rail line as well.
Then when the New Termianl is completed tear down the A thru F and now you have plenty of space for runways!

They technically could try, but would probably fail on a number of fronts. One of which being much of the airport is surrounded by a wildlife refuge. Even imminent domain can't touch that. So, any major reallignment/reconstruction has to take place on the existing property. There's just not much room to expand other than into the river with landfill, which one alternative proposes doing.

 

[Travelpro72]

You can't expand an airport anywhere anymore without some radical screaming about some damn frog or minow in a damn pond. Make it easier for the millions and millions that fly and build an airport or expand when you need to. I don't care if airplanes have to start landing on I-95 the PHL airport better do something.

 

[libertybell]

They technically could try, but would probably fail on a number of fronts. One of which being much of the airport is surrounded by a wildlife refuge. Even imminent domain can't touch that. So, any major reallignment/reconstruction has to take place on the existing property. There's just not much room to expand other than into the river with landfill, which one alternative proposes doing.

Probably fail......Hmmm Never say Never, the wildlife issue could be defeated. How? for example the AWNR Alaska Wildlife National Refuge has oil underground and after much debate certain areas are now permitted to drilling. So my point is if there is enough need for the public in the region the birds and wildlife will lose out just like the caraboo in Alaska.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well, just a quick glance at my "Rand-McNally"(focusing on the I-95 corridor) shows PHL in a "world of hurt"

Here's why(as you all know)

PHL needs to expand physically, AND CAN'T
PHL is only 75 miles from EWR, and about 75 miles from(INTERNATIONALLY UNDERSERVED) BWI.

As many have mentioned, PHL(state govrnment) is IMPOSSIBLE to deal with.

With a distance of less than 200 miles, we've got IAD,DCA,BWI...PHL...and EWR. TWO MANY airports in a rather small area.

Now consider this;
Parker is "Itching to MERGE with ANYONE, and I think that a LARGE part of his plan, is to get out of PHL.(An IMPOSSIBLE/UNSOLVEABLE problem).

WE ALL know PRIME real estate does'nt hang around for long, and I can help but go back to INTERNATIONALL UNDERSERVED BWI !!!


NH/BB's


ps,
ALSO, the fact that BWI has high speed AMTRAK, and MARC commuter rail, "right on the airport", is NOT lost on me either.

Hmmmmm !!

 

[zethya]

....PHL needs to expand physically, AND CAN'T PHL is only 75 miles from EWR, and about 75 miles from(INTERNATIONALLY UNDERSERVED) BWI........
WE ALL know PRIME real estate does'nt hang around for long, and I can help but go back to INTERNATIONALL UNDERSERVED BWI !!!
NH/BB's
ps,
ALSO, the fact that BWI has high speed AMTRAK, and MARC commuter rail, "right on the airport", is NOT lost on me either.

Hmmmmm !!

So how well do you think your proposal would go over with the 18+ Million Domestic and 2 Million International Philadelphia O&D passengers (2005) who now use PHL? Do you think they would accept driving or taking a train to an airport over 100 miles away? Your proposal is unrealistic at best. BWI is just not in the same league as PHL - it does well for one reason - WN and it's cheap fares.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

So how well do you think your proposal would go over with the 18+ Million Domestic and 2 Million International Philadelphia O&D passengers (2005) who now use PHL? Do you think they would accept driving or taking a train to an airport over 100 miles away? Your proposal is unrealistic at best. BWI is just not in the same league as PHL - it does well for one reason - WN and it's cheap fares.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OK, fair enough, but answer me this please.

Without "filling in 50% of the River,HOW do you fix PHL ???


NH/BB's

 

[FM2436]

Will any on this happen? NOT in my lifetime but perhaps one day yes.

Beam me up Scotty!

 

[wings396]

While I agree that the current PHL will never be "Fixed", I can't see the airline leaving the hub operation there to go elsewhere. They may want to take a look at building up some other stations a bit, but the PHL passenger traffic won't follow the airline if they decide to relocate the Hub elswhere. All that this would do is boost SWA's traffic by a very large margin. An airport that comes to mind is ABE, which is not all that far away, but is very underserved. There are lots of people from the Lehigh Valley area that drive to PHL and EWR in order to get direct flights to many destinations. I know when ABE had nonstop MCO service, there were people driving in from up to 1 hour away for the flight. Some were actually closer to PHL and EWR, but liked the no hassle ordeal at ABE.
Only time will tell what can be done... 😱

 

[Weight&Balance]

I believe Willow Grove was "saved" by the current administration. So that may be out for awhile.

However South Jersey has huge portions of open land in an area known as the NJ Pine Barrens of which large paortions are NOT preserved. There is already at least one high speed light rail that could be extended to the new airport.

NJ in it's zeal to grow and maintain it's own identity has shown no reluctance to thumb their collective noses at neighboring states. Witness Newark Airport, The Meadowlands Sports complex and other similar projects.

Will any on this happen? NOT in my lifetime but perhaps one day yes.

You can't build homes in the Pine Barons. What makes you think they will allow and airport?

 

[PHL]

ALSO, the fact that BWI has high speed AMTRAK, and MARC commuter rail, "right on the airport", is NOT lost on me either.

PHL has SEPTA, which is just fine. It's a short hop to Amtrak's 30th street station.

I doubt Parker will move hub operations. PHL is the revenue generator of the airline. PERIOD. The logistics and infrastructure are a pain to deal with, but as long as the revenue doesn't suffer they'll deal with it.

Two initiatives are already underway to improve the traffic flow. 1.) NY/PHL airspace redesign. 2.) PHL airport redesign. Both of these will take less time than it would to relocate an entire airport somewhere else in the region.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

PHL's observations are correct. Also, the New London decision from SCOTUS is not relevant to airport expansion, because airports have already been determined to be a public purpose. The enviro issues would not be relevant to the New London precedent, I don't think. State law, jurisdictional issues, the actual benefit of taking Tinicum and local politics are relevant. I don't know if there is an airport layout that would benefit by having pavement in Tinicum.

 

[nycbusdriver]

"...EWR is not in NYC, but draws a lot of traffic from the area. "


There's a limit to this concept, though. Has anyone ever heard of Stewart Field, New York City's FOURTH airport? Didn't think so. Too far out to really be a reliever airport; there is a limit as to how far someone will drive.

Also, it's EMINENT domain. Not imminent domain.

PHL and the cities across the river in NJ should get together and form a quasi-governmental authority like the unbelievably successful, wealthy and powerful Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ.) Then, build an entire airport facility directly across the river from PHL and connect it by (relatively) high speed shuttle trains (tunneled under the river.) They could divvy up the space between the PA and NJ terminals by air carrier, or Int'l vs. domestic, or however they want. It wouldn't matter which side of the river you parked your car on since the shuttle would take you to other side if that's where your departure was.

The downside of this is that Philadelphia would have to choose to share power and revenue with the NJ communities and that is not likely to happen. But it would be the quickest way to major expansion of the PHL facility. And if the governing entity works anything like PANYNJ, it will be very successful because they will be focused on the facility and not the politics.

The main reason EWR has enjoyed long-term success is because the PANYNJ has for decades limited access to LGA. The only thing New Yorkers loathe more than going to New Jersey is going to Kennedy. With LGA shut out of long-distance flights by PANYNJ decree, those travelers (and airlines) have been forced to divvy those travel dollars (and flight scedules) between EWR and JFK.

 

[computer guy]

If I'm not mistaken, the Willow Grove NAS will soon be available. It's in Pa. fairly close to Philly,and a very large parcel of land with existing runways.

I could be wrong but I think the Willow Grove complex is smaller then the existing site at PHL.