Court Rules Delta Force Majeur END. Additional Furloughs Cancelled

Court Rules that Force Majeure No Longer Exists. Additional Furloughs (20)Cancelled
Item one. The System Board of Adjustment, chaired by arbitrator Richard Bloch, today issued a decision regarding ALPA''s grievance challenging Delta''s use of force majeure to justify pilot furloughs. The Board has granted ALPA''s grievance in part. Most importantly, the Board found that negative economic conditions, rather than the events of September 11, were the principal cause of the Company''s decision to continue furloughing pilots. Based on this finding, the Board ordered the Company to immediately cease further furloughs. Consequently, the announced March 2, 2003 furlough of 20 pilots has been cancelled, as we reported last week. However, the Board declined ALPA''s request to order a recall of all furloughed pilots. Instead, it required Delta to recall furloughed pilots at the point that Delta system-wide RPMs during any four-month period equals or exceeds the RPMs for the same four-month period immediately prior to September 11, with certain RPM adjustments. At that point, all pilots still on furlough and protected by the no-furlough provision are to be recalled on a schedule dictated by the standard training process. For this purpose, system-wide includes Delta and all Delta Connection flying. ALPA will monitor the appropriate data for determining whether the recall process has been triggered. The full text of the arbitrator''s decision is now on the Dalpa.com website.
ALPA is pleased that the System Board has agreed that management cannot continue the furlough of Delta pilots. While we are disappointed that there is no immediate recall of currently furloughed pilots, we are also pleased that the ruling provides a mechanism for returning furloughed pilots to the cockpit, and that this method does not depend on management decisions.
 

ua767fo

Senior
Aug 30, 2002
252
3
"While this will now apply to ALL Airlines, why wasn't this posted on the Delta thread instead of USAirways?"
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Actually the system board decision only applies to the specific Delta ALPA grievance.
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/14/2003 8:01:25 AM Furloughedagain wrote:

Court Rules that Force Majeure No Longer Exists. Additional Furloughs (20)Cancelled

Item one. The System Board of Adjustment, chaired by arbitrator Richard Bloch, today issued a decision regarding ALPA's grievance challenging Delta's use of force majeure to justify pilot furloughs. The Board has granted ALPA's grievance in part. Most importantly, the Board found that negative economic conditions, rather than the events of September 11, were the principal cause of the Company's decision to continue furloughing pilots. Based on this finding, the Board ordered the Company to immediately cease further furloughs. Consequently, the announced March 2, 2003 furlough of 20 pilots has been cancelled, as we reported last week. However, the Board declined ALPA's request to order a recall of all furloughed pilots. Instead, it required Delta to recall furloughed pilots at the point that Delta system-wide RPMs during any four-month period equals or exceeds the RPMs for the same four-month period immediately prior to September 11, with certain RPM adjustments. At that point, all pilots still on furlough and protected by the no-furlough provision are to be recalled on a schedule dictated by the standard training process. For this purpose, system-wide includes Delta and all Delta Connection flying. ALPA will monitor the appropriate data for determining whether the recall process has been triggered. The full text of the arbitrator's decision is now on the Dalpa.com website.

ALPA is pleased that the System Board has agreed that management cannot continue the furlough of Delta pilots. While we are disappointed that there is no immediate recall of currently furloughed pilots, we are also pleased that the ruling provides a mechanism for returning furloughed pilots to the cockpit, and that this method does not depend on management decisions.

Well, atleast ALPA can say they got one thing accomplished for their members. What I find truly funny is how they were disappointed that DAL did not have to recall every pilot furloughed. Like, where would they put them?? Oh yeah, I guess they could pay them to do nothing. Now the fun beginsonce the contract is opened...
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Zephyr

Advanced
Feb 11, 2003
108
0
It looks like all the airlines are aobout to have another force manure opportunity with Iraq seemingly starting in a couple of weeks.

But I am happy to see that DALPA refused to concede the grievence.
 
Aug 20, 2002
10,015
675
www.usaviation.com
After reading (my) above post,
Where can ol' LEO find some $$$$$$ savings??

I know.
Line up ALL you DL non-union KOOL AID DRINKERS, and reach for your socks.
Your about to "take it in the shorts" AGAIN, REAL SOON !!

NH/BB's
 
Aug 20, 2002
10,015
675
www.usaviation.com
"I love it" !!

Ol' LEO, finds himself in DEEP "Dog Doo".

1. He's got his only union(ALPA) being paid BIG BUCKS !!

2. ALPA pratically told him to "forgetaboutit"(wage concessions) !!

3. ALPA(DL) is sitting on a VALID contract that's good until 2005 !!

4. If he(LEO) starts any "monkey business", by trying to shift flying away from mainline to SONG, I'm sure ALPA will cause him a ton of sleepless nites !!

AND,

5.He(LEO) "basically" LOSES the force majure battle !!

Come to think of it, I think ol' LEO is ALREADY having sleepless nites !!
Mabey he can try "SOMINEX"(If they still make it)

NH/BB's
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 9:48:41 AM DLFlyer31 wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 12:35:55 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

"I love it" !!

Ol' LEO, finds himself in DEEP "Dog Doo".

1. He's got his only union(ALPA) being paid BIG BUCKS !!

2. ALPA pratically told him to "forgetaboutit"(wage concessions) !!

3. ALPA(DL) is sitting on a VALID contract that's good until 2005 !!

4. If he(LEO) starts any "monkey business", by trying to shift flying away from mainline to SONG, I'm sure ALPA will cause him a ton of sleepless nites !!

AND,

5.He(LEO) "basically" LOSES the force majure battle !!

Come to think of it, I think ol' LEO is ALREADY having sleepless nites !!
Mabey he can try "SOMINEX"(If they still make it)

NH/BB's
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[/blockquote]

Don't worry Leo isn't having many sleepless nights. If the status quo remains, DL will be in BK by early 2004. Guess what happens then? The BK judge will have a field day on DALPA's contract.

Also, shifting mainline flying to Song would have no impact on DL pilots. Song flying is mainline flying in terms of the DL pilot contract.

If the DL pilots are unwilling to make changes to their contract, they will see NO GROWTH for the next two years. Under the judge's ruling, DL has no incentive to expand. The senior DL pilots can keep making their Big Bucks, while their younger "brothers" are on the street. ALPA's fine tradition of eating its young continues. I wonder why AAI,JBLU and WN don't want ALPA??

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[/blockquote]
My favorite new sticker the pilots carry on their bag is "Furloughed but not forgotten". It's a nice saying, but we all know they could give a c--p about the pilots on the street.
9.gif']
 

dfw79

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
308
0
DLFlyer hit is right on the head. Don't cooperate now, the judge comes a knocking. All other employee groups will have given back by now and soon as the company comes out of the darker days, they will get rewarded faster for their loyalty to the company. The ALPA guys will simply get their contracts gutted like U & UAL and be told to live with it for the next 8 years...or 2 years if they just redo the existing agreement. At the end of that term, the RLA will have been reworded to prohibit strikes and ALPA will have realized they just bought themselves into irrelevance.

Makes you feel for the junior pilots...they will be used as human shields for the old dinosaurs to protect their mid-6 figure salaries.
 

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 12:35:55 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

"I love it" !!

Ol' LEO, finds himself in DEEP "Dog Doo".

1. He's got his only union(ALPA) being paid BIG BUCKS !!

2. ALPA pratically told him to "forgetaboutit"(wage concessions) !!

3. ALPA(DL) is sitting on a VALID contract that's good until 2005 !!

4. If he(LEO) starts any "monkey business", by trying to shift flying away from mainline to SONG, I'm sure ALPA will cause him a ton of sleepless nites !!

AND,

5.He(LEO) "basically" LOSES the force majure battle !!

Come to think of it, I think ol' LEO is ALREADY having sleepless nites !!
Mabey he can try "SOMINEX"(If they still make it)

NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]

Don't worry Leo isn't having many sleepless nights. If the status quo remains, DL will be in BK by early 2004. Guess what happens then? The BK judge will have a field day on DALPA's contract.

Also, shifting mainline flying to Song would have no impact on DL pilots. Song flying is mainline flying in terms of the DL pilot contract.

If the DL pilots are unwilling to make changes to their contract, they will see NO GROWTH for the next two years. Under the judge's ruling, DL has no incentive to expand. The senior DL pilots can keep making their Big Bucks, while their younger "brothers" are on the street. ALPA's fine tradition of eating its young continues. I wonder why AAI,JBLU and WN don't want ALPA??
 

RJStud

Member
Aug 20, 2002
50
0
I think it was Uncle Leo himself that said, "A contract is a contract" when the FM was declared and the furloughs began. So, now he wants to change the contract, when it no longer favors him. If DAL could not afford the contract, then they never should have agreed to it. They should have let the pilots strike (never would have happened anyway...PEB was likely), just like they did when they coundn't "afford" the Comair pilots demands.

Hold the line DALPA, let the non-union saps take the hit this time. Read George Will's piece in todays paper, "Southern heritage" my a$$. Leo has no intention of going into bankruptcy. He does not want to lose control.
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 12:42:05 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

After reading (my) above post,
Where can ol' LEO find some $$$$$$ savings??

I know.
Line up ALL you DL non-union KOOL AID DRINKERS, and reach for your socks.
Your about to "take it in the shorts" AGAIN, REAL SOON !!

NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
What a stupid, idiotic comment! Wait and see... ALPA has no choice but to open the contract. But before they do, they need to bask in the only thing positive that has happened to ALPA in some time. And as far as employees taking it again in the shorts soon, we may but not until AMR employees take a bigger hit. This is not a union/non union issue, this is about survival for every carrier. So if you would please, keep your red-neck comments to yourself and worry about what is going on at your own sinking ship.
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 10:40:20 AM RJStud wrote:

I think it was Uncle Leo himself that said, "A contract is a contract" when the FM was declared and the furloughs began. So, now he wants to change the contract, when it no longer favors him. If DAL could not afford the contract, then they never should have agreed to it. They should have let the pilots strike (never would have happened anyway...PEB was likely), just like they did when they coundn't "afford" the Comair pilots demands.

Hold the line DALPA, let the non-union saps take the hit this time. Read George Will's piece in todays paper, "Southern heritage" my a$$. Leo has no intention of going into bankruptcy. He does not want to lose control.
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[/blockquote]
I agree, I don't think Leo has any intention of going into bankrupcy either. The non-union employees have already given at the office with the change to the pension plan, the Song airline with different pay rates,changes in medical premiums, etc. Times have changed, or havn't you noticed? Every carriers survival is at hand, and the successful ones will make the hard decisions and change or simply die. Considering the state of the industry, the changes that have been made to the non-union "saps" has not been that bad. Prior to the changes, we never paid a medical premium and we have always been at the top or near the top of the industry in pay and benefits. ALPA doesn't want to change but will be forced to and pilots I have talked to realize what is at hand. This isn't about mgmt vs. pilots, this is about competing in the new marketplace...
 
Aug 20, 2002
10,015
675
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 10:40:20 AM RJStud wrote:

I think it was Uncle Leo himself that said, "A contract is a contract" when the FM was declared and the furloughs began. So, now he wants to change the contract, when it no longer favors him. If DAL could not afford the contract, then they never should have agreed to it. They should have let the pilots strike (never would have happened anyway...PEB was likely), just like they did when they coundn't "afford" the Comair pilots demands.

Hold the line DALPA, let the non-union saps take the hit this time. Read George Will's piece in todays paper, "Southern heritage" my a$$. Leo has no intention of going into bankruptcy. He does not want to lose control.
----------------
[/blockquote]

RJStud,
BRAVO,BRAVO. You hit the proverbial nail SQUARELY on the head !!!!!!1

RJStud, imagine this hypothetical example/THEORY.
You and I join the army. We raise our hands, "SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE", and get shipped off to Afganistan.
Shortly after we get there, we tell the Army, we've changed our minds, and we want out.
Question? What FEDERAL PRISON do you think we'd be residing in? Levenworth perhaps ??

NH/BB's
 

michael707767

Senior
Aug 21, 2002
332
0
[blockquote]
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2. ALPA pratically told him to "forgetaboutit"(wage concessions) !!

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[/blockquote]

Actually, ALPA told the company if/when you want concessions, come to us with a specific list of what you want. This is actually a smart tactic. Would you start to offer up concessions to the company before you knew what they wanted/needed? What if you gave em a 20% pay cut, when all they needed was 10%? ALPA is not dumb. They know a BK court will gut their contract. They will make reasonable concessions when the time is right. But they will not go to the company with a blank sheet and say fill in what you want. I just hope Delta ALPA does a better job for the Delta pilots than ALPA did for the pilots at my company.
 

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