Dec 2012/Jan 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[necigrad]

I have no problem with the company talking to the TWU , I mean they may be our future union after all .

Freedom, every day that the company spends on an agreement with an AA union is taking away a day available to negotiate with the unions in house, and for speculative reasons at that. So, let me ask you this: If the NC says "We're close to an agreement, we only have the fine print to work out", a merger happens, and then the company says "Well, since we're merging, there's no point to continue seperate negotiations" what will you think then? While it wasn't that close,t hat exact scenario happened wit the AWA/US merger. TWU was negotiating for our first contract in five years, we merged, and we're only just now doing full negotiations. Pretty mucht he same thing happened to the Eastguys, except they kept sucking up bankruptcy contracts and not real negotiating. By sayign you have no problem with it, you are saying that you have no problem with a contract not getting negotiated.

I will say this point blank. If there is a merger that sidetracks FULL AND COMPLETE Section 6 negotiations for a contract amendment for me on the US CBA, I WILL vote down ANY transition agreement that is less in ANYTHING then WN, and, if possible, I WILL vote for a strike and HAPPILY walk the line. I will NOT tolerate negotiations that the company delays at to kick the can down the road for another five years! It should also be noted that if we get a tentative agreement for the IAM contract I will give it serious and legitimate consideration, so I am NOT just grandstanding here.

I will also say that, were the comany not in negotiations, I would fully suport their actions. Labor Relations aren't hired in just for negotiations time, they are regular employees. I agree that exploring avenues with potential merger partners is wise, but not at the expense of current agreements.

 

[robbedagain]

orgac i completely agree with you i never thought of it like that but it makes sense
necigrad that makes sense and i have to also agree with you freedom sure doesnt know much but its all the clear that the twu is absolutely the preferred for US rather than the iam

 

[ograc]

orgac i completely agree with you i never thought of it like that but it makes sense
necigrad that makes sense and i have to also agree with you freedom sure doesnt know much but its all the clear that the twu is absolutely the preferred for US rather than the iam

Again, I will ask everyone... what should that be telling us?

 

[mike33]

Again, I will ask everyone... what should that be telling us?

Dont sell yourself short. You work in a place where this company gave back about 7 weeks vacation back to their passenger service people and......shift differential of $.58 per hr. Thats because they also gave up in 2 BK's like you.

And for those who want to say its because of the CWA contract ?....im not interested because it doesnt matter ! The only thing that matters is what may happen tomorrow.

 

[wings396]

Freedom answer me this. Do you know why they are only talking to the TWU? I think that is a fair question.

I would like to speculate a bit on this if I may. I'm guessing that the company and the TWU already know something that many of us have suspected all along, and that is because they know which unions will be representing which groups in the future. I think that we all know that there is no way that the TWU would be onboard with Parkers plan if they knew that there was a possibility of them losing a large amount of their membership as a result. My guess is TWU gets Fleet, IAM ends up with MTC....
Just a hunch....

 

[mike33]

I would like to speculate a bit on this if I may. I'm guessing that the company and the TWU already know something that many of us have suspected all along, and that is because they know which unions will be representing which groups in the future. I think that we all know that there is no way that the TWU would be onboard with Parkers plan if they knew that there was a possibility of them losing a large amount of their membership as a result. My guess is TWU gets Fleet, IAM ends up with MTC....
Just a hunch....

Maybe. I'm not going to try and predict whats going to happen. The TWU are followers. All im saying is that i believe that they are riding the coattails of the pilots and the FA, just trying to stay in the game. We at US have our own issues to resolve first and the company is playing us both. They (the TWU ) dont have a choice really but we do......it's called solidarity. Finish negotiating next week and lets get on with it. If they are stalling ( which i think they are because they know they owe us more than that "Down Payment" of a measly 4.3% ) then the AA guys need to pay attn to our situation and realize that buy changing the name of the Airline and its CEO still has the same internal problems if you divide the work force in this way. Its called Alienation.

 

[freedom]

Well mike we ARE in negotiations so in reality they are talking to both our work groups .

I for one want to see this merger happen ,being the largest airline on the planet will have long term job security implications .

While I will be somewhat sad to sree the IAM go I will not miss their courtly pay scales or the dead end pension.

The IAM isn't totally bad , its just our union has been unwilling to adjust to the times and you know what they say , if you can't keep up you get left behind .

 

[ograc]

I would like to speculate a bit on this if I may. I'm guessing that the company and the TWU already know something that many of us have suspected all along, and that is because they know which unions will be representing which groups in the future. I think that we all know that there is no way that the TWU would be onboard with Parkers plan if they knew that there was a possibility of them losing a large amount of their membership as a result. My guess is TWU gets Fleet, IAM ends up with MTC....
Just a hunch....

You could be right but nothing is a given. One certainty is there is much at stake for both unions. Another certainty is which union the company is betting on and hoping will represent the Fleet in the event of a merger. That in itself speaks volumes. Consider if you will; membership dissention, the possibility of another union getting on the ballot and historically high apathy among the Fleet Service with US and AA then nothing is a given regarding which union wins representation rights. The TWU must stay in the game. There is too much to lose.

 

[ograc]

Well mike we ARE in negotiations so in reality they are talking to both our work groups .

I for one want to see this merger happen ,being the largest airline on the planet will have long term job security implications .

While I will be somewhat sad to sree the IAM go I will not miss their courtly pay scales or the dead end pension.

The IAM isn't totally bad , its just our union has been unwilling to adjust to the times and you know what they say , if you can't keep up you get left behind .

The difference Freedum is US is talking and going through the motions with the IAM while signing agreements with the TWU. A union that is not even on their property. DP is going to have a lot of egg to clean off of his face if this merger doesn't go through. My guess if that were to happen is he will exit stage right just as Wolfe did.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

If they want to play games, let them.They will have to deal with a combined workforce when it comes time to negotiate a JCBA.That is when they have to deal with all of us.This alienation of the workforce is exactly what they want, if we're too busy shooting at each other we can't focus on getting the best possible contract for all of us.

 

[robbedagain]

wings i suspect you could be correct on that. ive long thought about that and i tend to agree with you on that. freedom what will you do if the iam actually does stay and represent the fsa as a whole rather than the twu? but again i also ask you do you think its right that this chicken mgmt team of ours is ok in dealing with a complete set of unions of another airline while talking to our unions but have never settled us contracts til recently with the f/as i have a problem with that bec to me that signals that this lame duck mgmt has no intention of fulfillin in getting agreements with us and theyre hopin that not only we merge, but we get twu and possibly their contracts which is worse than ours from what my neighbor a retired aa fsa told me

 

[mike33]

Well mike we ARE in negotiations so in reality they are talking to both our work groups .

I for one want to see this merger happen ,being the largest airline on the planet will have long term job security implications .

While I will be somewhat sad to sree the IAM go I will not miss their courtly pay scales or the dead end pension.

The IAM isn't totally bad , its just our union has been unwilling to adjust to the times and you know what they say , if you can't keep up you get left behind .

OK Freedom....Here we go

Give me a list of the gains you are getting with this TWU merger MOU? I also would like for you to tell me what your % of gain from this MOU is, that the company wants you to swallow, compared to what you think you deserve from our Negotiotions we are in. I realize that you are from the Old TWU contract and can't justify what your fellow employees gave up years before you became USAir, so in my mind i will compare on a " Curve" so to speak.

 

[mike33]

If they want to play games, let them.They will have to deal with a combined workforce when it comes time to negotiate a JCBA.That is when they have to deal with all of us.This alienation of the workforce is exactly what they want, if we're too busy shooting at each other we can't focus on getting the best possible contract for all of us.

There is no shooting at each othe JFK.... This is all informational for those reading and nothing more. This company is talking out the side of its mouth with fork tongue ! Period! Its about value! i consider my self after all these years more valuable than a 4.3% DOWNPAYMENT on whats due to us before any other union language that doesnt pertain to us!

If you dont have things like Merger Protection then all the MOU's in the world arent going to save you from the TWU. Just 1 example.
Look around at the AA stations that are contracted and also have US on property. Dont you think it would be benefical for all to clean the Class 1/2 station language up?

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

They should've gotten you guys on board before trying to slip us a "Roofie",but they they chose not to in the rush to woo the thoroughly pissed off AA unions and their standing with the UCC.

Let's see how quick they finish things up with you guys now that all of the AA drinks have been spiked.

No matter what happens they have a JCBA to deal with at some point in the not too distant future.

 

[mike33]

They should've gotten you guys on board before trying to slip us a "Roofie",but they they chose not to in the rush to woo the thoroughly pissed off AA unions and their standing with the UCC.

Let's see how quick they finish things up with you guys now that all of the AA drinks have been spiked.

No matter what happens they have a JCBA to deal with at some point in the not too distant future.

If it gets to that point i agree. But sure would love a choice other than a throat job. There is a huge unknown here and thats what the company is playing on. We will see in the next 2 weeks how they negotiate.

They need to change the Usairways phrase used ......" Begins with You " .