Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

No... I think that the "general" is just one of the bigger "REMFs" to ever grace the board.

That's some mighy impressive "tough talk" little "spartan"...Sold many boxes of Girl Scout cookies or T-shirts for your little "army" lately fifi?

Oh well. Why waste more time with any such pathetic excuses for people as are always so hell-bent on finding rationales for immediate and unconditional surrender. Sigh! I suppose such folk always need to find ways to excuse themselves their gross, glaring character deficiencies and projecting such on others seems natural in light of that.

Best stick to your Xbox kid. 😉

 

[Piedmont1984]

Two interesting questions which were asked at the roadshow and verified in the MOU itself:

Does the MTA render a nullity the Transition Agreement between ALPA east, west and USAirways? According to Szymanski it does, as stated in Section 4 of the MOU. The MOU is a contract which displaces that other contract(TA). The TA, you will recall, is what many have claimed to be the document which binds USAPA to the Nic. This is good news/bad news. Many have argued that we have been bound to the Nic through the instrument of our original TA, which would now dissappear. But the risk is that we get to play seniority roulette all over again, not just between USAPA and APA, but between east and west.

Section 18-b. We should know on or before the poll results of this MOU on the 8th of Feb whether or not the AMR BOD has decided to approve this merger.

 

[nevergiveup]

Two interesting questions which were asked at the roadshow and verified in the MOU itself:

Does the MTA render a nullity the Transition Agreement between ALPA east, west and USAirways? According to Szymanski it does, as stated in Section 4 of the MOU. The MOU is a contract which displaces that other contract(TA). The TA, you will recall, is what many have claimed to be the document which binds USAPA to the Nic. This is good news/bad news. Many have argued that we have been bound to the Nic through the instrument of our original TA, which would now dissappear. But the risk is that we get to play seniority roulette all over again, not just between USAPA and APA, but between east and west.

Section 18-b. We should know on or before the poll results of this MOU on the 8th of Feb whether or not the AMR BOD has decided to approve this merger.

They may approve it with the condition that the MOU is approved on the 8th.

 

[A320 Driver]

With APA members the percentage of rejection was higher and he came back quickly with significant improvements to get it over the top. With USAir pilots he won't have to do squat more since he bumped it enough to salvage his failed MOU 1, and there is no way he will have any serious consideration of his measure of desire from any significant portion of USAir pilots that are blown away at his generosity of late.

"He", I am assuming to mean Parker. What did Parker have to do with the APA rejections of there tentative agreements? That was between APA and Horton (AA management), not Parker.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh well. Why waste more time with any such pathetic excuses for people as are always so hell-bent on finding rationales for immediate and unconditional surrender.

The USAir pilots as a group?

Even though USAir pilots will be the only group left to agree to the terms of the merger, there is little reason to believe that a majority will recognize it as THE time to use the occasion as a "no, but yes if moment". Indeed if now is not the time to vote no to push upon the desires of everyone else that stands to gain far more, then indeed there is never ever going to be any time for membership to do so, and I propose membership ratification be eliminated, for stupidly telegraphing the answer will now and forever always be yes, again.

We cold have had retro pay back when the BPR approved this, but nooo.. We had to have membership ratification.

 

[cleardirect]

The premise that LOA 93 negotiating circumstances is the same as todays is unfounded. Obviously DUI and the UCC is very motivated to get everyone on board but won't pay a penny more than they have to in order to buy your vote.

Wow! Did you think of that all by yourself or did you have help? Of course Parker tries to pay the least amount he can for a contract. It would be irresponsibile to intentionally overpay. When you go buy a car do you say I can this car for X but I think I will pay an additional $5000.00 just because?

The USAir FAs have voted down their TAs twice and DUI keeps coming back with more offers, each time has been small improvements and with the last vote failing by such a small percentage DUI had very little he had to do to get a yes vote, which he obviously will get.

You don't know Parker. He did this the last time with the west contract. He made an offer, not a great offer but we were limited by the ATASB loans. That first offer was cvoted down by a large margin. Parker came back with another offer. Just as bad as the first but moved some pennies around but additional pennies. That got voted down. Third try in my opinion was not as good as the third because it mored pennies from one area that I wanted to another area that I did not. But it was the same dollar amount. That contract passed. But it was no additional money just wasted time.

We are in the same position. Except instead of an ATSB loan we have the UCC limiting and dictating the total amount.

There will be no additional money, if the company were to continue to negotiate (dounbtful) it would just be moved around. But all Parker has to do is wait and he can have a different union hand us a contract.

But I don't think Parker will renegotiate anyway. If this merger goes through he is going to be bust reorganizing the company. There will be no time to negotiate with the 4000 pilots. He has 50-60-70 thousand other employees, vendors, cities, government agencies and leasors to deal with.

The USD Airways pilots will be told you had your chance you will have to wait for the APA to get you a joint contract.

Go back and watch one of the last crew news videos. Parker specifically states that the F/A's will not get any more money. That is Parkers MO. Shift it around all you want but there are not additional dollars.

With APA members the percentage of rejection was higher and he came back quickly with significant improvements to get it over the top. With USAir pilots he won't have to do squat more since he bumped it enough to salvage his failed MOU 1, and there is no way he will have any serious consideration of his measure of desire from any significant portion of USAir pilots that are blown away at his generosity of late.

Which side of your argument are you on? In the first paragrapg you said Parker would bring more money in this one you say he will not.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We should file a grievance for the 3%. Maybe even put an expedite on it.

WHO ARE YOU? You are obviously not an east pilot if you are asking this question.

Your credibility just went to ZERO.

 

[cleardirect]

The USAir pilots as a group?

Even though USAir pilots will be the only group left to agree to the terms of the merger, there is little reason to believe that a majority will recognize it as THE time to use the occasion as a "no, but yes if moment". Indeed if now is not the time to vote no to push upon the desires of everyone else that stands to gain far more, then indeed there is never ever going to be any time for membership to do so, and I propose membership ratification be eliminated, for stupidly telegraphing the answer will now and forever always be yes, again.

We cold have had retro pay back when the BPR approved this, but nooo.. We had to have membership ratification.

It took three days for the BPR to get an 11-0 vote for approval. Do you think that everyone was "on board" right away?

This MOU like all contract has warts. But that is why the reps get the big bucks. To make those very difficult decisions. The BPR, NAC, pro negotiators and officers have all of the facts and information. They made a decision. I don't like the MOU but given what I have learned I believe this is the best we are going to get. The BPR must have also believed that also.

You can hope and pray and scream and demand more but there is no more this time. For many reasons (mostly east pilots) we are in a very bad situation with very little choice.

The BPR could have voted this down but they understood what that meant and decided that this MOU was better than voting it down. Why do you think that is?

You last sentence is pure delusion. you were NEVER going to get retro pay. usapa in order to keep the loyal followers happy promised retro back to 2008. That was NEVER going to happen. Let me repeat that, retro pay was NEVER going to happen.

You can vote no until you retire but you are NEVER going to make up what you gave up. That is why is called a consession. Otherwise you would have called it a loan with a repayment schedule. Besides it has become who east pilots are, the poor put upon sacrificing pilots. If you got repaid you martyr status would be revoked and that is more important to you than money. The ability to claim being the victim.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They may approve it with the condition that the MOU is approved on the 8th.

Ooooh! Now I'm scared!

 

[nevergiveup]

Ooooh! Now I'm scared!

I voted yes, but if the recall happens, will change my vote to no. Can't have a leader with a group of yes men trailing along behind him.

 

[signals]

Here's what the FAs are saying in their thread.

Better check your date...Feb. 5 is Tuesday.

 

[Zone5]

What's your worry? Do LTD pilots get the pay raise??

There was a question regarding LTD benefits under the MOU in PHL the other day and as I recall, current beneficiaries will stay on the program they are currently on. I think the real question at this point is at what point does the new LTD program become effective? Would that be as of the MOU ratification, the POR or JCBA ratification? Furthermore, when will the new pay rates become the basis for determining the benefit?

Suffice to say, there are lots of unanswered questions and plenty of room for "creative" management interpretation on this and many other aspects of the MOU. Without question, a yes vote for the MOU requires a pretty big "leap of faith" which everyone has to analyze and come to terms with in their own minds.

At least this decision is being made by the pilots!


seajay

 

[A320 Driver]

I voted yes, but if the recall happens, will change my vote to no. Can't have a leader with a group of yes men trailing along behind him.

Not sure how you equate one with the other, but it's your choice. I assure you Tom and Mike are NOT "yes men". Personally, I think the only reason you are getting a vote at all is because we threatened the CLT reps with a recall.

 

[dca319]

Not sure how you equate one with the other, but it's your choice. I assure you Tom and Mike are NOT "yes men". Personally, I think the only reason you are getting a vote at all is because we threatened the CLT reps with a recall.

I agree with everything you posted.

 

[dca319]

WHO ARE YOU? You are obviously not an east pilot if you are asking this question.

Your credibility just went to ZERO.

It was meant as sarcasm to a previous post and you're the only one that didn't get it. If you missed it, then I'll try to simplify it for you. Do you need me to show you the post?