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Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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EastUS1 said:
"You can't get an equity stake in a bankrupt company,.." Exactly so sir, thus; any such stake must be predicated on future value afterwards, which necesarily includes any/all value that the US side brings to the transaction and subsequent operations. What were those figures being bandied about?...Something like 1.2-1.5 BILLION dollars in annual synergies/etc? Aww heck! Why should any on the US side expect to equally benefit? 😉

"...all for the benefit of the old AA pilots and to the exclusion of the LCC pilots." Yep. ".. to the exclusion of the LCC pilots." How that can possibly seem entirely or even at all reasonable to anyone here escapes me.
Click to expand...

You still don't understand that just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it. You need to be able to take it and you have yet to show any credible leverage. APA is a UC, we're not. APA is a union, we're not. Reasonable? Of course it is. If the APA doesn't help get it for us then we don't get it. We have an MoU because the APA wanted us to have one.
 
You just can't make this stuff up.....

Subject line: Swatting the Fly on the Wall

Dave Ciabattoni has been a busy guy.

He's been a one-man marching band trying to drum up opposition to the MOU. Most of his work has been done behind the scenes under pseudonyms like "Compass Correction" and "Fly on the Wall." Dave hasn't had the guts to say in a public setting what's wrong with the MOU – until yesterday.

Ciabattoni came to the PHL NAC briefing yesterday in full force – but all he did was make a fool of himself. During two of sessions, he stood up and launched an unintelligible diatribe against the MOU. All his points seemed minor and sputtering drivel. It got so bad that a number of the line pilots in the room told him to sit down and shut up. Others came to the meeting to make campaign speeches but only Ciabattoni was shouted down by the PHL pilots. Maybe they've heard just one too many rants over the years – rants that have produced nothing for us.

Look, I don't think this MOU is perfect but from what I can tell, our negotiators got a better deal for us than APA's negotiators got for them.

So, Dave, I have a question for you. I know you're a good pilot but what makes you think you're smarter or a better negotiator that the seven attorneys that USAPA and APA has working for them – attorneys that stood up to two airline companies and their creditors and negotiated a tough agreement that would put $1.6 billion into our pockets?

So who do you believe? Dave or the 11 members of the BPR who voted for this plan? Dave or the 4 member of the NAC who negotiated it? Dave or the 4 officers of USAPA who support it? Dave or USAPA's 3 attorneys who support it? Dave or the 8000 pilots at American who support it?

Dave contends that if we vote down the MOU, he can fix this all through the grievance process. How's that been working out for you?

So I wasn't sure about the MOU before yesterday. Ciabattoni's ranting got me to vote YES today. It isn't perfect but I'm tired of listening to fools like Ciabattoni who rant against everyone but have produced nothing. And even more important, the MOU is a lot better than what we have today.

Joe Pilot
Swatting the Fly on the Wall​
 
Beancounter said:
If you really wanted a good contract, why on God's green earth did you help create USAPA? USAPA (previous leaders) have:
  • Gotten us parked
  • Used safety as a bargaining tool
  • An injunction
  • Lost unity by attacking the west and driving a wedge between the pilot groups.
You go on and on about proper negotiating techniques, so please enlighten me as to how the above actions have helped us get closer to a contract or put us in a good bargaining position.

Bean
Click to expand...

Because YOU and your ALPO boys GAVE away my pension and gave us LOA93. And now your want to give us this POS MOU.
 
Portly Dorman said:
You just can't make this stuff up.....

Subject line: Swatting the Fly on the Wall

Dave Ciabattoni has been a busy guy.

He's been a one-man marching band trying to drum up opposition to the MOU. Most of his work has been done behind the scenes under pseudonyms like "Compass Correction" and "Fly on the Wall." Dave hasn't had the guts to say in a public setting what's wrong with the MOU – until yesterday.

Ciabattoni came to the PHL NAC briefing yesterday in full force – but all he did was make a fool of himself. During two of sessions, he stood up and launched an unintelligible diatribe against the MOU. All his points seemed minor and sputtering drivel. It got so bad that a number of the line pilots in the room told him to sit down and shut up. Others came to the meeting to make campaign speeches but only Ciabattoni was shouted down by the PHL pilots. Maybe they've heard just one too many rants over the years – rants that have produced nothing for us.

Look, I don't think this MOU is perfect but from what I can tell, our negotiators got a better deal for us than APA's negotiators got for them.

So, Dave, I have a question for you. I know you're a good pilot but what makes you think you're smarter or a better negotiator that the seven attorneys that USAPA and APA has working for them – attorneys that stood up to two airline companies and their creditors and negotiated a tough agreement that would put $1.6 billion into our pockets?

So who do you believe? Dave or the 11 members of the BPR who voted for this plan? Dave or the 4 member of the NAC who negotiated it? Dave or the 4 officers of USAPA who support it? Dave or USAPA's 3 attorneys who support it? Dave or the 8000 pilots at American who support it?

Dave contends that if we vote down the MOU, he can fix this all through the grievance process. How's that been working out for you?

So I wasn't sure about the MOU before yesterday. Ciabattoni's ranting got me to vote YES today. It isn't perfect but I'm tired of listening to fools like Ciabattoni who rant against everyone but have produced nothing. And even more important, the MOU is a lot better than what we have today.

Joe Pilot
Swatting the Fly on the Wall​
Click to expand...
Would you provide a transcript or link which legitimizes your claim.
 
cactusboy53 said:
While these guys (the NAC) are busy, they will field your questions as quickly as possible.

To those that are serious about these proceedings and want an improvement from your current contract & wage: Thank you for taking the time to become educated and informed!

CB
Click to expand...
Love hearing this form our PHX rep Dave, another sales job, you guys are like those infomercials trying to sell us this, too bad you have smart consumers. We can read between the lines. And just like Hummel wants to keep eveyone in the dark so much for transpanercy. Why Dave did you vote to keep the meetings SECRET please do tell us, don't we have a right to know?.
 
luvthe9 said:
Because YOU and your ALPO boys GAVE away my pension and gave us LOA93. And now your want to give us this POS MOU.
Click to expand...

Hey, I was no big fan of ALPA prior (they tried to hose me once). It took USAPA's actions after our merger to make me understand there could be worse, much worse.

Bean
 
luvthe9 said:
Now your calling the an AA pilot an idiot, no wonder no likes you.
Click to expand...

Is "little lambs" meant to be a term of endearment?

He is an idiot if he thinks the bankruptcy was "manufactured" and not necessary.

I know you love and revere me, that's why you're the president of my fan club.
 
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