Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Love hearing this form our PHX rep Dave, another sales job, you guys are like those infomercials trying to sell us this, too bad you have smart consumers. We can read between the lines. And just like Hummel wants to keep eveyone in the dark so much for transpanercy. Why Dave did you vote to keep the meetings SECRET please do tell us, don't we have a right to know?.

So we could all CLEARY see how much hyperbole & obfuscation you could generate, of course. You have the right to educate yourself on the MOU and ask questions on content. You have the right to know what you will be getting & losing with the MOU agreement. You should have the smarts to weigh EVERYTHING (for instance: Industry Pay over 3 years, you also will be paying industry medical, just like all the other legacy carriers).

Luvr, PLEASE stop being a lemming. It is time for a raise and improvement. ANYONE that thinks that they will achieve all retro, all high pay, all contract improvements because "we suffered and sacrificed" all these long years is an absolute FOOL.

In your adult life (regardless of whom you have worked for) has an employer EVER walked up to you and said: "Luvr, I'm so sorry for the way you have been screwed over your career in this industry. Here is a check for the entire amount that you think you deserve, plus a little extra."?

How could any logical possibly think that this should be different?? Because you deserve it? Because you are entitled? Because it's just not fair?

Pick up the MOU book son, and watch the videos.

 

[Beancounter]

Now that's a funny one, where should I start poop in the mail or stealing identities.

You can start right after Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. Even if it were true, let me get this straight: then you couldn't put up with it and move on in the best interests of getting a new contract, but now you're willing to sit on LOA 93 for another 1-2 years. Why would you freak out then about a few supposed turds, but open up wide for a huge one now? You can't be that stupid, so I'm guessing there is some ulterior motive I'm missing.

Bean

 

[luvthe9]

. Even if it were true, let me get this straight: Bean

Huh, Do you even work here? it was proven true, please you have to be kidding all of us here.

 

[signals]

This site is playing hide-n-seek, because my original post wasn't there then it magically appeared! 🙄

 

[Black Swan]

So we could all CLEARY see how much hyperbole & obfuscation you could generate, of course. You have the right to educate yourself on the MOU and ask questions on content. You have the right to know what you will be getting & losing with the MOU agreement. You should have the smarts to weigh EVERYTHING (for instance: Industry Pay over 3 years, you also will be paying industry medical, just like all the other legacy carriers).

Luvr, PLEASE stop being a lemming. It is time for a raise and improvement. ANYONE that thinks that they will achieve all retro, all high pay, all contract improvements because "we suffered and sacrificed" all these long years is an absolute FOOL.

In your adult life (regardless of whom you have worked for) has an employer EVER walked up to you and said: "Luvr, I'm so sorry for the way you have been screwed over your career in this industry. Here is a check for the entire amount that you think you deserve, plus a little extra."?

How could any logical possibly think that this should be different?? Because you deserve it? Because you are entitled? Because it's just not fair?

Pick up the MOU book son, and watch the videos.

Too much fuzzy language. Plus the scope. When the weak sisters voted me onto LOA93 against my wishes, I saw how quickly the morons realized they gave their livelihood to Mesa and Republic. The funniest thing was seeing the look on their faces when they saw those AWA Flintstone paint job Mesa 90 seaters on the C concourse in CLT. And all the flying that got sucked away with it. the passengers just loved flying those long legs on them. Then the Republic takeover began in PHL.
Go ahead and give your scope away. Just shut up when Republic expands again to take your job. After all, you can trust management, right??

 

[luvthe9]

. It is time for a raise and improvement.

Dave I agree with you on that , but everything else is way to vague and too many gray areas we all went through that with LOA93, tell us how much of an increase will the average westie will now be paying for healthcare and how much extra vacation you will be getting. Now tell us why YOU wanted to keep the meeting secret. Hope you love the 190's that scope thing was kind of important. Why did you give up the jumpseat. Tell the boys the truth about the LTD.

 

[Black Swan]

East, west, north, south - it makes no difference to me. Breaking an agreement without the consent of the other party has no moral justification in any civil or theological construct in the history of mankind. Should that fact just be ignored while certain posters assert the false claim that Management is responsible for the east not having a post-merger contract?

Still waiting for the answer to how the East broke a binding arbitration. It was merely an internal union seniority proposal. It was not a binding issue nor is it a legal contract. Get off your morality box and get your facts straight.

 

[3dtv]

Jamie,

I'm disgusted by your voting record as PHL Vice Chairman. I don't support you, or this MOU. Sadly, the NAC has left us vulnerable to numerous risks under this MOU and given up too much in the process. Even more sad is the fact certain members of the BPR (you, DCA, & PHX) did not have the guts to fix the problems when you had the opportunity. Instead of taking a stand and getting an acceptable agreement, you push it on to the membership to do the the dirty work for you.

You say, "We have been told "no" by the company, "no" by the NMB, and now "no" by the UCC". Well, I say "NO" to the MOU!

Furthermore, I've lost faith in this union under Hummel's leadership. God help us.


Another happy customer !!!!!

Luv, you moron. The vote was 11-0.

 

[dca319]

Dave I agree with you on that , but everything else is way to vague and too many gray areas we all went through that with LOA93, tell us how much of an increase will the average westie will now be paying for healthcare and how much extra vacation you will be getting. Now tell us why YOU wanted to keep the meeting secret. Hope you love the 190's that scope thing was kind of important. Why did you give up the jumpseat. Tell the boys the truth about the LTD.

Courtney, this is an MoU. You do understand that it's temporary?

 

[cactusboy53]

Too much fuzzy language. Plus the scope. When the weak sisters voted me onto LOA93 against my wishes, I saw how quickly the morons realized they gave their livelihood to Mesa and Republic. The funniest thing was seeing the look on their faces when they saw those AWA Flintstone paint job Mesa 90 seaters on the C concourse in CLT. And all the flying that got sucked away with it. the passengers just loved flying those long legs on them. Then the Republic takeover began in PHL.
Go ahead and give your scope away. Just shut up when Republic expands again to take your job. After all, you can trust management, right??

Swanny;
If it's not to your liking, then you should vote NO. I can't remember a time that we didn't have an agreement/side letter/ etc. that was perfect. Your NAC and professional negotiator (Roland Wilder, chosen & vetted by McKee & gang) have brought a document before you that is for argument's sake complete.

Are there some mistakes & typos? Sure. The NAC is working on the document to assure it is complete. You have to understand that the NAC & all other party's assembled and did these negotiations over the course of the Christmas holidays. They worked nearly every day in person in excess of 12 hours. Those days that they weren't in the same room, they were on conference calls.

Can you boys manage to vote this down in yet another ineffective land grab, and manage to lose contract improvements, wages, a "signing bonus", and difference "retro pay" beginning the 8th of February? Of that I have no doubt.

Just think: Had you kept ALPA on property, accepted the Nicolau list & finished contract negotiations an east FO (while still in the right NB seat) would have about $175,000 more in his ex-wife's bank account. Not to mention more time off, contract improvements and likely enjoying a second post merger contract like DAL. Yet another lost opportunity........

 

[cactusboy53]

Still waiting for the answer to how the East broke a binding arbitration. It was merely an internal union seniority proposal. It was not a binding issue nor is it a legal contract. Get off your morality box and get your facts straight.

So if the merger goes through and we become members of APA, will you still sing the same tune? A new collective bargaining agent is allowed by shear number to cherry pick which portions of the former agent's contracts, side letters, agreements and arbitrations?

So what if Kasher grants the 3% retroactive USAPA's claim; We become APA & the new American claims that they won't pay and the collective bargaining agent agrees. Fair?

 

[Portly Dorman]

Dave I agree with you on that , but everything else is way to vague and too many gray areas we all went through that with LOA93, tell us how much of an increase will the average westie will now be paying for healthcare and how much extra vacation you will be getting. Now tell us why YOU wanted to keep the meeting secret. Hope you love the 190's that scope thing was kind of important. Why did you give up the jumpseat. Tell the boys the truth about the LTD.

Did Dean mention the jumpseat?? From what I've heard the AA boys don't know about that. Maybe if Bradford/Cleary/McKee/Ciabatonni/Rowe/King/Theure had not been in such a frenzy to rule the world we would have a REAL union that works together rather than the injuncted mess we have now. The MOU is a weak agreement, but what do you expect from the group that has OVER REACHED at every turn and under delivered constantly.

Had we been included on day one of this things would be different. Remember PHX is closing Courtney, whatcha gonna do?? When APA takes over you gonna be a rat for them?? Mikey's gonna miss his little snitch...

 

[Portly Dorman]

So if the merger goes through and we become members of APA, will you still sing the same tune? A new collective bargaining agent is allowed by shear number to cherry pick which portions of the former agent's contracts, side letters, agreements and arbitrations?

So what if Kasher grants the 3% retroactive USAPA's claim; We become APA & the new American claims that they won't pay and the collective bargaining agent agrees. Fair?

That's an agreement from a previous entity, sorry, doesn't apply to us. Move along, nothing to see hear. B) B) B)

 

[Black Swan]

So if the merger goes through and we become members of APA, will you still sing the same tune? A new collective bargaining agent is allowed by shear number to cherry pick which portions of the former agent's contracts, side letters, agreements and arbitrations?

So what if Kasher grants the 3% retroactive USAPA's claim; We become APA & the new American claims that they won't pay and the collective bargaining agent agrees. Fair?

I love your APA retroactive speculation. You just are clueless on the way arbitration works. That 3% is an arbitrated issue between an employer and a contracted union constituency. The arbitrators decision IS binding there. An internal union seniority proposal is absolutely non binding. The representation issues still are applicable.
If you are going to be a rep, you better get your facts straight. From what I have seen here, you have no business discussing arbitration. None.

 

[Black Swan]

That's an agreement from a previous entity, sorry, doesn't apply to us. Move along, nothing to see hear. B) B) B)

Another clueless one. Let s hear why the LOA 93 decision bound IMMEDIATELY, and why the Nic didn't. Should be interesting.