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Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Bingo, and lets not for get AA gave us the B scale.

What about the B scale Uair has propagated?? Do you even remember the AA B scale? Or just more of Claxies ancient history?

You (well your group) turned down a better offer in BK2 because 'we can get more!' Did you get more?

Keep trying, that land grab DOH (especial for a furloughee) should work very well.
 
There is no rush to pass this MOU. AA just asked the judge for another extension to April 15th to file the standalone POR.
For many reasons, including the inane vague language of the MOU, I'm voting NO.
For the merger, against concessions.
There is a better deal.
NO.
 
There is no rush to pass this MOU. AA just asked the judge for another extension to April 15th to file the standalone POR.
For many reasons, including the inane vague language of the MOU, I'm voting NO.
For the merger, against concessions.
There is a better deal.
NO.
Are we in section 6 negotiations? What makes you think the company will talk to us if the MOU fails?

All they have to do is wait for the APA to become the bargaining agent and we are done.

Do you think usapa can get us a better deal? They have not been able to in the last five years what makes you think all of a soon the NAC found leverage and ability?

What do you consider a better deal? What is it that you want to buy your vote?

Retro back to 2005?
$100,000 signing bonus?
Locked up DOH?
10 year fences for CLT,DCA and PHL?

Do you think the company will give you any of those this?

What do you think is a better deal and can you get it?
 
There is no rush to pass this MOU. AA just asked the judge for another extension to April 15th to file the standalone POR.
For many reasons, including the inane vague language of the MOU, I'm voting NO.
For the merger, against concessions.
There is a better deal.
NO.
Someone else that gets it, very refreshing.
 
Hopefully with all that excessive verbiage behind us, we can finally talk about how “risk” and “uncertainty” apply to the MOU. Although a “no” vote on the MOU was previously described by another writer as an “uncertainty,” it is actually a “risk.” Although we do not know exactly what Parker would do with a “no” vote, we certainly do know what he could do. For instance, Parker could come back with an even worse MOU (extremely unlikely as he loses all credibility in the eyes of APA, the creditors, etc.) or he does nothing (again unlikely as he is by his own words and promises trying to put together a merger. Doing nothing defies logic and good business sense and ignores the elephant in the room. It makes the creditors wonder how serious Parker is about achieving the synergies of a big airline. Parker’s ego does not want nor will he be permitted to run three separate airlines.) or he comes back kicking and screaming with an MOU (or better yet, a contract) that is more palatable to the pilot group. In my opinion, this is his only real option if he wants to hold this merger together. Too much time, money and energy have been expended by Parker and others to let it fall apart now.......... I no longer care about "what ifs"
Do you think the company will give you any of those this?

What do you think is a better deal and can you get it?
 
There is no rush to pass this MOU. AA just asked the judge for another extension to April 15th to file the standalone POR.
For many reasons, including the inane vague language of the MOU, I'm voting NO.
For the merger, against concessions.
There is a better deal.
NO.

Agreed. The whole idea of being put under any conveniently contrived and entirely artificial "deadline" should be enough of a red flag, just by it's self. Our only difference here is that I'd observe it to be not the inane, but rather the INSANELY vague language of the MOU.
 
You getting paid by the word on this? Reads like more rambling from our buddy Woody 'catpiss' menear.



Hopefully with all that excessive verbiage behind us, we can finally talk about how “risk” and “uncertainty” apply to the MOU. Although a “no” vote on the MOU was previously described by another writer as an “uncertainty,” it is actually a “risk.” Although we do not know exactly what Parker would do with a “no” vote, we certainly do know what he could do. For instance, Parker could come back with an even worse MOU (extremely unlikely as he loses all credibility in the eyes of APA, the creditors, etc.) or he does nothing (again unlikely as he is by his own words and promises trying to put together a merger. Doing nothing defies logic and good business sense and ignores the elephant in the room. It makes the creditors wonder how serious Parker is about achieving the synergies of a big airline. Parker’s ego does not want nor will he be permitted to run three separate airlines.) or he comes back kicking and screaming with an MOU (or better yet, a contract) that is more palatable to the pilot group. In my opinion, this is his only real option if he wants to hold this merger together. Too much time, money and energy have been expended by Parker and others to let it fall apart now.......... I no longer care about "what ifs"
 
There is no rush to pass this MOU. AA just asked the judge for another extension to April 15th to file the standalone POR.
For many reasons, including the inane vague language of the MOU, I'm voting NO.
For the merger, against concessions.
There is a better deal.
NO.

According to the NAC and our attorneys, there isn't. And it's crazy to risk losing the MoU vs staying on LOA 93 to find out.
 
And it's crazy to risk losing the MoU vs staying on LOA 93 to find out.

Or is it more an issue of you believing that it's just "crazy to risk" at anytime ever? The company clearly wants the contained concessions...and I've no doubt whatsoever that they just absolutely love the instrument's language. What possible reason exists for rationally assuming they wouldn't cheerfully offer at least this marvelous, far-below-industry-standard deal up again?
 
According to the NAC and our attorneys, there isn't. And it's crazy to risk losing the MoU vs staying on LOA 93 to find out.
Attorneys lie for a living and our NAC traded their support for improvements to the MOU. They agreed to support this mess and to sell it to the masses. What else would they say?
A NO vote brings everyone back to the table. Billions of dollars and many golden parachutes are at stake, not to mention DP's rep.
This is a no brainer, guys. Don't let the fake FUD rule your otherwise steeley, analytical brains.
The money is an illusion and the concessions are real.
This agreement is a turd, and no matter how much lipstick and perfume you put on it, it still stinks.
I'm for the merger, but know there's a better deal to be had. It's the oldest negotiating trick in the book, used by car salesmen and insurance companies since the dawn of time. Set a false deadline, create fear, and pressure the rube to sign on the dotted line.
I'm not going to do that.
NO.
 
A NO vote brings everyone back to the table

It's the oldest negotiating trick in the book, used by car salesmen and insurance companies since the dawn of time. Set a false deadline, create fear, and pressure the rube to sign on the dotted line.

Indeed.
 
I just love these guys coming here full of bravado, all puffed up and ranting anomalously from behind a keyboard...scratch that, that's me. Sorry.

Luv9 and the guy wearing pull ups are whimpering because they are manly men and don't react to deadlines and schedules, forgetting that essentially every negotiation has just that, a series of deadlines. Unless of course it's our pilot group under the NMB, where our legal right to a deadline has been rendered impotent.

The AMR BK set in motion the deadlines. The second the creditors lost their moneys, and the APA lost their retirements, everyone was under some sort of deadline in a race to capture the most they could in the process. Those with leverage were able to "play" deadlines to their advantage. The APA, having watched everyone else in the industry screw up in some fashion, did a great job at exploiting their leverage (you have to have leverage) to get the best deal they could. Had the CLT idiots not wasted our leverage in a stupidly executed and ill-conceived work action two summers ago, we might have been able to join the APA pilots last summer for a little bit more "leverage." And remember, the very idea of the CLT work action was a "deadline" for Parker to cave by summer. Yeah. Right. They really stuck it to him.

At any time the BPR could have pulled our NAC from this process, including during the first MOU (the one we still should regret not signing.) Our team of lawyers, ALL promoted by the CLT reps, could have guided us down a different path. But they did not. They were your elected Reps and the team they (your proxy) hired, acting in your best interest.

All this talk about how you are going to show Parker who is boss, and stand tough is laughable. The pilots YOU elected have told you they believe it is time to vote. You are WAY too late to make any political changes (replace the entire BPR) in order to change our path. All you have now is one vote. Again, anyone have any idea how Luvthe9 is going to vote?

There are actually 3 votes closing this week. Only one has any real meaning, and it is not the PHL election or the CLT recall.

Greeter
 
The delusional are alive and well. Vote no, no raise, no seat at the table. Let the APA decide a joint agreement.

The crew room whisper campaign must be in high gear. Going to bring Cleary and Co back to show the company who's boss? Ciabatta is frothing at the mouth feeding this stuff out to his loyal minions.

You really want to stay on the B scale for ever?


Attorneys lie for a living and our NAC traded their support for improvements to the MOU. They agreed to support this mess and to sell it to the masses. What else would they say?
A NO vote brings everyone back to the table. Billions of dollars and many golden parachutes are at stake, not to mention DP's rep.
This is a no brainer, guys. Don't let the fake FUD rule your otherwise steeley, analytical brains.
The money is an illusion and the concessions are real.
This agreement is a turd, and no matter how much lipstick and perfume you put on it, it still stinks.
I'm for the merger, but know there's a better deal to be had. It's the oldest negotiating trick in the book, used by car salesmen and insurance companies since the dawn of time. Set a false deadline, create fear, and pressure the rube to sign on the dotted line.
I'm not going to do that.
NO.
 
Or is it more an issue of you believing that it's just "crazy to risk" at anytime ever? The company clearly wants the contained concessions...and I've no doubt whatsoever that they just absolutely love the instrument's language. What possible reason exists for rationally assuming they wouldn't cheerfully offer at least this marvelous, far-below-industry-standard deal up again?

Again, WE went looking for an MoU. Without the APA's support, WE would have NEVER gotten one. The company WILL have contained concessions if we don't vote in the MoU - we affectionately call those LOA 93. A majority of us aren't about to play the same game of chicken we played in bankruptcy with LOA 93 where we ended up with something much worse than the initial offer. And, to answer your last question, who knows? But we have a better chance of an industry leading contract combined as the APA than as USAPA. I'll pass on your game of chance.
 
Attorneys lie for a living and our NAC traded their support for improvements to the MOU. They agreed to support this mess and to sell it to the masses. What else would they say?
A NO vote brings everyone back to the table. Billions of dollars and many golden parachutes are at stake, not to mention DP's rep.
This is a no brainer, guys. Don't let the fake FUD rule your otherwise steeley, analytical brains.
The money is an illusion and the concessions are real.
This agreement is a turd, and no matter how much lipstick and perfume you put on it, it still stinks.
I'm for the merger, but know there's a better deal to be had. It's the oldest negotiating trick in the book, used by car salesmen and insurance companies since the dawn of time. Set a false deadline, create fear, and pressure the rube to sign on the dotted line.
I'm not going to do that.
NO.
A no vote gets you ignored, left out in the rain and on loa93 for a few more years costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Isn't the 1.6 BILLION dollar freebie you gave to Parker over your temper tantrum enough? There is no table to go back to. You'll just be ignored until APA slays USTUPID. They probably won't be in much of a rush to address the concerns of a minority of yippy, annoying East whiners either.

In a way, I hope this gets voted down so you guys can ONCE AGAIN, be proven to be the dumbest MF'ers to ever menace the skies.
 
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