Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The premise we need this MOU to have a seat at the SLI table with APA is complete crap. An mou is just a memorandum of understanding to give management what they want: relief from COC and to kick the seniority can down the road in an attempt to keep it from interfering with Parker's precious merger.
Next to the money increase there really is no value in having the MOU. None.

It is not that it gives us a seat, it is it puts us on equal financial status (career expectation) with the AMR pilots.

 

[nic4us]

USAPA put out an update this week. A letter was signed. The MOU may be ratified before the AMR board approves the merger.

The vote has not closed.

Perhaps they telegraphed their intentions and we will hears news either today or tomorrow morning.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Can the usapa president engage the union in a law suit???

Can the USAPA president make an change to the MOU? Is this something else he was trying to hide by not sending it to us in an email? Did anyone see this in a road show?

 

[luvthe9]

It is not that it gives us a seat, it is it puts us on equal financial status (career expectation) with the AMR pilots.

You have no "career expectation" at AWA now you can't wait to steal APA jobs you think you are entitled too. It never ends with you boys. Guess what you are far from equal with AA.

 

[Res Judicata]

I kind of get the "feeling" that some of the no vote sentiment has somehow become an almost subconscious effort to "stick it" to Doug Parker by "raining" on his parade.

If anyone is "harboring" such thoughts, I hope you realize that if the MOU were in fact voted down, "Team Tempe" would be "high-fiving" that news, big time! Think about it, they try to do the "right thing" and gosh darn it, those pilots refuse to take the money, oh well, I guess we have to just "soldier on" without them!

This merger is going to happen, with or without us. Would management prefer to have everybody "on-board"? Yes, I think so. Do they really NEED us on-board? I think not.

If they have to drag us "kicking and screaming" along, they will and it won't hurt them as much as it will us. Just ask the unsecured creditors how they feel about paying the LCC pilots a lot less over the next few years, while this thing is being put together, without our input!


seajay

Wow! An Eastie grasping reality! How novel...I'm impressed....

 

[nic4us]

You have no "career expectation" at AWA now you can't wait to steal APA jobs you think you are entitled too. It never ends with you boys. Guess what you are far from equal with AA.

You are no doubt the biggest scab supporting scumbag on this thread.

I make no claims on anything the AMR pilots have, however, I do make claim to what I have at LCC. What I have at LCC is a combined system seniority that will be integrated with the AMR pilots if there is a merger.

Each case turns on it's own merits, and the merits of this case will result in a fair and equitable integration.

So, take your scab union and it's DOH wet dream and walk into a SLI with The APA and watch how fast we get stapled to the bottom of their list if this MOU does not pass.

You are the effin morons who think you deserve to leapfrog better paid APA pilots just because you got a hire date at a long defunct airline and a decade worth of furlough time.

 

[cleardirect]

The way I read section 18: voting is complete at 2pm est Friday. If the AMR board has not announced its intent to merge, the MOU with regard to USAPA is history.

Wrong! Where did you guys learn to read?

All it means is that usapa will hold the results of the vote until an announcement.

Damn you guys are your own worst enemy.

First you all scream about wanting to vote on something. The MOU is voted yes by the BPR and you guys scream and demand to see the MOU and vote. usapa sets up road shows right away and sends out information about the MOU.

Now the same guys are screaming and demanding a delay in voting, more time, more information, dirty politics have entered the picture nd you think that after all of that work and effort and time and money spent to educate the pilots because the announcement has not been made an announcement that nobody knows when it will be made kills the MOU.

I would bet a lot of money that if the BPR had held the MOU and not run the road shows and told you we were going to wait to vote until the merger announcement you would have been screaming and demanding their heads for not letting you vote.

One of the excuses for the abortion usapa is because you all demanded more votes. Well here you are. A tough decision voting on an MOU. You have been given 2 weeks to read and get educated about the MOU and the process. That is a normal amount of time to make a decision on a contract. But you all are acting like a bunch of cowards and bitches whining about more time and more information. there will never be enough time or information for you pu$$ies

Stop it! Time to man up and vote. You are all so scared because you made very poor decisions on LOA 93 and electing usapa you don't want to make another decision because you are paralyzed with fear. The problem is by not making a decision you are goin gto end up worse off than voting yes.

This merger is coming. No stopping it. It is time to make a decision. Vote yes for the MOU, gain some improvements or vote no and remain stuck on LOA 93 and no chance for better for the next 1-2 years. Those are your choices, there is no more negotiating if this MOU gets turned down.

Time to grow a pair and do what you have been demanding to do. Vote. No more delays.

 

[cleardirect]

That's my take. There is still time to clear up much of the language. I also think we're ALL (yes that would include West) get some stock as well. That would give us a seat at the table as well.

Did the west get part of that $70 million?

There is no stock for the US Airways pilots. That is a separate deal. Do you also want to go back in time and freeze your pension like the APA got?

It does not work that way. The APA has unity and leverage and ability to negotiate. usapa has none of that.

 

[cleardirect]

Is that this guys LAST name (Gary) or is this the the NEW APA?

Captain Steve, meet Captain Bobby. Captain? Captain. Sounds like an AOL video.

Captain, captain captain.

Not an AOL video. That was an east crew room.

Finally seeing how silly and childish you east guys sound?

 

[cleardirect]

Then expect the LABOR unions to continue their erosion. But oh, wait!

The NEW labor movement is to endorse the Obama immigration bill to allow IMMIGRANTS into the country so they can increase membership.

These immigrants will be applying for jobs including airline pilots, probably with greater minority "rights" then yours. They don't need seniority either. Just your job. Robert Reich seems to lead the charge on giving ALL beings in the universe equal rights under our laws. No wonder the Afro-American community continues to remain at the bottom of the food chain.

Cabotage is going to be the new norm.

What does any of that have to do with the east not living up to your work and destroying trust and integrity in the final and binding process?

usapa showed the way how NOT to do a merger and the rest of the industry is going to avoid doing what the east did. Everyone except the east understands how costly and destructive that has been.

Contract first then seniority.

 

[Portly Dorman]

This MOU has been out for a month, yet 3 days before the vote closes the UEL's show up in force with the vote no campaign. Why now?

Bottom line this merger goes on with or without us. Dug would prefer we remain at our current rates so he can continue record profits. The east MAY see the CoC come to play but I'm guessing it would be very short lived and you may never see that money.

The fear I read from the usual suspects is that the usapa president is beginning to see the benefit of moving forward to improve the QoL for ALL usapa pilots rather than a few. This seems to make the UELs crazy.

I have a long time left and would like to make the best of it. If I were within 2-3 of retirement this would be a no brainer, vote yes, an addition $40-50 an hour raise. As for the seniority issue you have no dog in the fight. The list outcome won't have any effect on you, DOH, NIC, slotting, shoe size or hair color.

The MOU provides for a transition to a contract. The UCC does not want a repeat of the US/HP debacle dragging on endlessly. Yes it has weak language but it won't live more than 2 years before a full contract is signed. If the CoC kicks in my guess is the contract talks will be very short and productive.

You can parse the language all you want but the usapa attorney has said sign it, there won't be more or a revisit to sweeten the deal. Remember that the APA voted already, the UCC said yes, the future CEO likes it, and we are only 35% of the pilot group. Why would the do anything for us?

You want to move forward or stay mired in the morass we are in?

Just food for thought, this merger fails you can kiss the pay rates in the MOU goodbye. Dug will come back with less than the Kirby. He'll cry a river about how he just can't afford that anymore. Given the progress usapa has made I'll retire at 2004 rates if this deal tanks.

Just my 2 cents adjust for inflation, cost of living, temperature & pressure.

So pullup, who will make it bulletproof? Woody "I've got an AX!" Paul who is not on the NAC? The majority of the people currently running this union say we should vote for it. Even the CLT reps, right? I mean the C&BLs require that they send it our with a yes or no recommendation and I don't remember see a no.

I firmly believe that if this merger is going to happen it will be announced soon and when that happens our power goes poof. If I didn't feel that way I'd vote no.

The money outweighs what we are giving up. What is it in our current contract that the money doesn't overcome for you? The west pilots actually are giving up contract items, I don't see much on the east side.

I also see value in going to arbitration on an equal economic footing. The west pilots used the contract differential very effectively against us.

 

[nic4us]

Seajay & like minded ,

I sure don't have a perfect crystal ball .
But I do try to learn from recent history.
We had a contract that plainly showed an end date for our current pos pay rates.

A crystal ball?

You do not even have a clear understanding of your own situation.

Not now...not then...

What you had was a contract that plainly showed an amendable date...nothing more...other than uscaba's desire to chase a long shot red herring in the hopes of getting the company off their position that the only accepted system seniority list is the Nic.

 

[PullUp]

You have no "career expectation" at AWA now you can't wait to steal APA jobs you think you are entitled too. It never ends with you boys. Guess what you are far from equal with AA.

Dude, that was out of line. East and west are in this crappy deal together. Seniority aside, this thing will affect us both negatively.
Cheap shots are easy but don't help any of us.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

That's just the point. It has NOT been OK to be on LOA93 for all these years. It has been abusive, especially in light of record profits.
But this is our last chance to recover something from Parker for that abuse.
Don't squander it. Make it bulletproof and ironclad.
If the merger occurs, we start our airline history over at zero, as the past has no bearing on the future. But, right now, it still does and should be considered.
If the money wasn't in this agreement, would you sign it? And, is the money enough to compensate you for what you're giving up?
Also, there is never a guarantee of a 'next' agreement. Present circumstances is my evidence to that fact.
What you sign now becomes your life until it is changed - on an unlimited timeline.
Think before you vote. Consider the future. Do you understand the consequences of this action?
Vote, then have a beer.
Cheers.

It must have been OK to be on LOA 93 all these years. You east pilots have fought tooth and nail to stay on it. The “abuse” has been self-inflicted because you refused to accept the result of arbitration. You all told Parker you would rather stay on LAO 93 than accept the Nicolau. He believed you.

There is no recovery. usapa made sure that was never going to happen. Because east pilots demanded the unobtainable it has driven the cost well beyond any breakeven point.

If the merger occurs, we start our airline history over at zero, as the past has no bearing on the future. But, right now, it still does and should be considered.

Learn from history. When you merged with AWA your airline history reset to zero. Parker and AWA pilots owed you NOTHING. It had no bearing on your future.

Beginning to understand how things work? How karma comes around and bites you in the a$$?

 

[cleardirect]

Isn't if block or better for the trip?

Oh yeah. That selective reading thing.

Same old thing. Scare the sheep with just some of the information.