Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Bill Brasky]

They did nothing of the sort. They're once again in a DOH only mindset.

You're right. It was the Merger Attorney at the road show that said that they were bound to abide by the DOH plan since it is in their C&BLs. He's the one that broke down the SLI process into steps that should have been simple enough for a westie to understand. I guess they weren't simple enough.

By the way, both the attorney and the President of APA, who was at the roadshow I attended, said that even though there are no guarantees at this point exactly how the SLI will turn out, the Nic was a non-player, as described in paragraph 4 of the MOU.

 

[cleardirect]

Do you not know that the east pilots cannot bid west captain slots? Do you not know that the west was offered a fence to keep this from happening in the event that a list would become effective? Well....now you know.

East pilots can't bid west slots forever and ever? Really because that is not what usapa offered. That is not what the company accepted.

 

[cleardirect]

That wasn't possible under any circumstance. The company said that no proposal was acceptible unless it contained a "no bump, no flush" provision. It was in BOTH proposals. Just keep making stuff up to suit your needs. Just because a guy was furloughed doesn't mean he shouldn't get credit for his service to the company. Go ask YOUR furloughees what they think.

All East furloughees came back to East flying, either as an East pilot, or as a west pilot flying East routes.

I'll bet the APA will feel the same as I do about their furloughees. Just wait and see.

I did not say anything about bump and flush. What you and the other furloughs want is the seniority to be placed ahead of west captains. When that west captain decided that he wanted to fly out of another Us Airways base that furloughed east pilots would be bidding ahead of that west captain. Mergers happen that does not mean everything stays the same.

In your opinion that furloughed pilot should get credit, in the opinion of the guy that mattered the arbitrator, he decided that furloughed did not get credit.

Maybe you are new or have selective memory. But not all east pilots were recalled east. Some east pilots were recalled to the west.

Once again they are not east routes. They are US Airways flying required to maintain contracts.

 

[Zone5]

Seajay,

I guess it is best that I retired because with the new bid I would have been just as "stagnent" as I have been for the last 10 years! Guess I'll just have a beer or two and get over it. Retirement is great! I can actually start and finish a project in the same week vs the same year when working.

All the best,

Bob

OK now Bob........., you know it's hard to "move up much" when you're #1 on the list! 😉

Glad to hear you're doing well and thanks for staying interested in all this "drama", I appreciate your insight and input.

Best regards,


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

You're right. It was the Merger Attorney at the road show that said that they were bound to abide by the DOH plan since it is in their C&BLs. He's the one that broke down the SLI process into steps that should have been simple enough for a westie to understand. I guess they weren't simple enough.

By the way, both the attorney and the President of APA, who was at the roadshow I attended, said that even though there are no guarantees at this point exactly how the SLI will turn out, the Nic was a non-player, as described in paragraph 4 of the MOU.

The president of the APA was at a road show or was it the negotiator for the APA that was at the road show?

Are you sure that what he said was the Nicolau was a non player?

Because when the president Keith Wilson was at the BPR meeting he understood and acknowledged that the Nicolau was a[font="Calibri""]bsolutely[/font] a player and understood his responsibility and liability if he tried to use something else.

What is a non player will be DOH. The american pilots are not going to allow or accept 85% of the east pilots to be in the top 50% of the combined list. Placing 6500 of 10000 american pilots in the bottom 7000 slots.

 

[dca319]

You're right. It was the Merger Attorney at the road show that said that they were bound to abide by the DOH plan since it is in their C&BLs. He's the one that broke down the SLI process into steps that should have been simple enough for a westie to understand. I guess they weren't simple enough.

By the way, both the attorney and the President of APA, who was at the roadshow I attended, said that even though there are no guarantees at this point exactly how the SLI will turn out, the Nic was a non-player, as described in paragraph 4 of the MOU.

That they never said. When I asked, they wouldn't even address the SLI.

 

[Metroyet]

You're right. It was the Merger Attorney at the road show that said that they were bound to abide by the DOH plan since it is in their C&BLs. He's the one that broke down the SLI process into steps that should have been simple enough for a westie to understand. I guess they weren't simple enough.

By the way, both the attorney and the President of APA, who was at the roadshow I attended, said that even though there are no guarantees at this point exactly how the SLI will turn out, the Nic was a non-player, as described in paragraph 4 of the MOU.

So what do you reckon Judge Silver meant when she said that USCABA was on dangerous ground if it abandoned the nic? Do you think you may not be getting the whole story? This is going to court well before the first seniority integration meeting with the APA. The West is going to shove the Nic down your throat via court order. USTUPID is welcome to attempt any type of integration with the APA they want as long as they don't attempt to reorder the nic first. That's illegal. Don't believe me? Ask a Jury.

 

[Bill Brasky]

That they never said. When I asked, they wouldn't even address the SLI.

Then you weren't at the roadshow I was. What I wrote is exactly what was said.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The president of the APA was at a road show or was it the negotiator for the APA that was at the road show?

Are you sure that what he said was the Nicolau was a non player?

Because when the president Keith Wilson was at the BPR meeting he understood and acknowledged that the Nicolau was a[font=Calibri"]bsolutely[/font] a player and understood his responsibility and liability if he tried to use something else.

What is a non player will be DOH. The american pilots are not going to allow or accept 85% of the east pilots to be in the top 50% of the combined list. Placing 6500 of 10000 american pilots in the bottom 7000 slots.

He was introduced as the President of APA.

 

[Bill Brasky]

So what do you reckon Judge Silver meant when she said that USCABA was on dangerous ground if it abandoned the nic? Do you think you may not be getting the whole story? This is going to court well before the first seniority integration meeting with the APA. The West is going to shove the Nic down your throat via court order. USTUPID is welcome to attempt any type of integration with the APA they want as long as they don't attempt to reorder the nic first. That's illegal. Don't believe me? Ask a Jury.

I don't know what she meant by that. Especially since she said that USAPA was free to negotiate any SLI they wished, and if they had a LUP (and we know there is), there was no DFR. She may as well have just told you to give it up, it's over. Go cry to mommy.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I don't know what she meant by that. Especially since she said that USAPA was free to negotiate any SLI they wished, and if they had a LUP (and we know there is), there was no DFR. She may as well have just told you to give it up, it's over. Go cry to mommy.

A logical presumption would be that her reference was to the opinions and rulings offered by Wake and Bybee who's legal views were generated based on the merits of the west claim rather than on a determination of ripeness alone that Tashima and Graber ruled on. Going back to a federal court with an unquestionably ripe DFR claim for abandoning the NIC is the very dangerous ground to which, in context, she was alluding to. That's what the Company attorneys took from her ruling and the NMB has concurred that no progress can be made unless USAPA accepts the NIC or a federal court grants immunity for the Company to negotiate for a list that has already been determined to be a violation of the union's DFR.

 

[nic4us]

It would be nice to hear our union's plan B if Nicolau isn't dead

Usapa does not need a plan B.

If they execute plan A, and as Bill has pointed out it is their intent, then there will no longer be a usapa to execute any other plan.

 

[A320 Driver]

But, to date the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC, and I will gladly make a mockery of any "evidence" you have to the contrary.

If it's accepted, why can't you use it? You are no closer today than you were 6 years ago. You've lost in court twice. The only time you won, it was dismissed on appeal. I'd say it's not near as accepted as you would like it to be.

 

[dfw gen]

Hate to see how long this thread will be aa pilots join up! Are you guys sure there's enough hate for 3 airlines?

 

[traderjake]

Hate to see how long this thread will be aa pilots join up!

Did you just add some more hate to the thread?