Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Well Well Well the captain eastie beastie yellowneckers, oh for years and years now claim parker is no good, parker does not know anything, parker is horrible. They say this because parker had the gall to save us airways back in 2005, oh the nerve of the guy. the captain eastie beastie yellowneckers tried this campaign of lanyards against the might doug parker, ho ho ye ye. Parker is a genious and once again has stuck it to the captain eastie yellowneckers. you tried to defeat the genious giant parker with a landyard hohoh heee heee haaaa baaaa

You guys fullfilled his dream beyond his wildess comprhension parker is the ceo of american, the world's largest airline. the captain yellownecker eastie beastie pickleballers dont even know it, well they got disgraced again.

what will you tell your children.

oh now you will go on and on with your nonsense, but i doubt you can lie to yourselves any longer, the genious of parker and the complete stupidity of yourself. hahahahahahah ho hohohohohohoho,

Current score parker 112 million, captain eastie beastie yellowneckers dont even know it -44. You have been crushed, demoralized, xanix wont even help you, hohohohohohohoh hahhahhahaaaaa yeeee yyeeee

Kind of early to be drinking, isn't it?

 

[end_of_alpa]

I have read it. Are you now saying that the usapa C&BL does not require and demand DOH?

I thought that was the entire purpose of usapa. That has been the argument from many of your buddies that usapa can't use anything other than DOH.

Changing your tune when the facts don't work out for you?

The bargaining position will change if it goes to arbitration. No sense in arguing DOH when we can TRULY use the AWA argument that our financial futures were much brighter as a "stand alone" carrier then the American "stand alone" position without.

Here is the REAL body of confirmation of OUR Arbitration argument using the US Airways-AWA Dispatchers arbitration:

"West characterizes the merger decision on AWA’s part as a one-way economic bailout. But there is no support for this in the record; surely, the respective companies did not endorse that view. AWA concluded, according to the statements of its CEO, that "…when we looked out at our future, what we saw wasn’t good…. Assuming we couldn’t go out and restructure or raise cash, it is possible that AWA would have been facing its own Chapter 11 at some point. Employees may like to think we "saved" US but the fact is we saved each other…18

The June 10, 2005 issue of "Plane Deal", an AWA publication, touted some of the benefits of joining fleet forces: ​

When merged, the combined airline will become the nation’s 5th larges airline, as measured by domestic available seat miles (ASMs). The combined airline is expected to operated a mainline fleet of 361 planes (supported by 239 regional jets and 57 turbo props for feed into the mainline system), down from a total of 419 mainline aircraft operated by both airlines at the beginning of 2005….19 ​

In the context of a "Town Hall" Q&A , the company noted ​

the prospect of a combined airline was more enticing to investors: ​

The money is being raised for the combined airline, because investors see the value in the merged entity. Frankly, airlines in their current state don’t look appealing to investors, who are savvy to know industry change needs to take place. The proposed merger represents the kind of change that investors believe will be successful. So, unfortunately, we wouldn’t garner this kind of interest if we were seeking funding for America West "as is."20

Your don't have to use Nicolau's arguement when there are so many other "Arbitrators" decisions to draw from.

 

[Pi brat]

LOL why didn't LLC withdraw their appeal to the circuit court? NIC is the list.

Who says they won't when the merger is approved? How come the west didn't also appeal in case they do?

 

[icehead]

With guys like Paul "DOH or death" Music controlling the BPR APA is going to clean our clocks.

The MOU has limited protections which we approved by 75%. Has it occurred to you that we have collectively made it more difficult for who ever is on the BPR. We have told everyone involved that we love this deal. I would have preferred a 51/49 scenario
I don't know Di Orio but I do know Music. You may not like his style but I will take substance over style any day.

 

[Pi brat]

Who says we have to file a hybrid DFR? Since there is no longer any contract negotiation the company is not involved unless they try to reject the Nicolau during arbitration.

Otherwise it is all usapa if they attempt to use anything other than the Nicolau.

The MOU did nothing to eliminate liability or responsibility from usapa.

With the timeline of SLI negotiations in the MOU and the fact that USAPA will be handling the US pilot side of things, do you still see APA inheriting USAPA's DFR liability if they don't do as you see fit? If not, what happens when you sue a union that no longer exists?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Who says we have to file a hybrid DFR? Since there is no longer any contract negotiation the company is not involved unless they try to reject the Nicolau during arbitration.

Otherwise it is all usapa if they attempt to use anything other than the Nicolau.

The MOU did nothing to eliminate liability or responsibility from usapa.

You guys have absolutely NO legal concept. Again, for the millionth time, I quote:

"To recover against a union under § 301, the union member must prove both

(1) that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement and
(2) that the union breached its duty of fair representation.   White, 899 F.2d at 559.  

These are “the two constituent claims in every hybrid 301 action.”  Id.

If the union member fails to prove that the union breached its duty, he will, obviously, recover nothing from the union.  
If the union member fails to prove that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement, he also will recover nothing, because the union member's grievance would have failed regardless of the union's representation."

Don't let the LAW get in your way.

 

[cleardirect]

The MOU has limited protections which we approved by 75%. Has it occurred to you that we have collectively made it more difficult for who ever is on the BPR. We have told everyone involved that we love this deal. I would have preferred a 51/49 scenario
I don't know Di Orio but I do know Music. You may not like his style but I will take substance over style any day.

From Music's campaign letter

Give me DOH or give me death.

Is that what you consider substance?

 

[Zone5]

Those are the breaks in big money deals. So PHX shrinks. We all now work for a much larger airline with many many opportunities. With my Nicolau seniority I may just go to CLT and enjoy the weather. DFW for the big hub and variety. Who knows. Just like PIT these guys went somewhere else they did not hit the street.

I would think you guys would be hoping and praying that PHX grew so we stayed here not come to a base near you and take our rightful flying slot.

But keep poking the bear dumba$$.

So why not come to PHL, that's where the serious WB flying is that you are much more likely to have "some" access to (depending on your new JCBA seniority), because the chances of anybody from LCC flying out of DFW anytime soon are probably extremely remote.

Besides PHL is really great, fantastic Cheese Steaks!, I'll even buy you your first one! I have some close friends in South Philly who are in the restaurant business that I would love to introduce you to.


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

You guys have absolutely NO legal concept. Again, for the millionth time, I quote:

"To recover against a union under § 301, the union member must prove both

(1) that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement and
(2) that the union breached its duty of fair representation.   White, 899 F.2d at 559.  

These are “the two constituent claims in every hybrid 301 action.”  Id.

If the union member fails to prove that the union breached its duty, he will, obviously, recover nothing from the union.  
If the union member fails to prove that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement, he also will recover nothing, because the union member's grievance would have failed regardless of the union's representation."

Don't let the LAW get in your way.

Don't let the concept get in your way.

I said it may not be a hybrid DFR. We could just sue usapa and not the company.

Judge Wake dismissed the company in the Addington case.

 

[dariencc]

Now get ready to put your houses on the market because PHX is about to get downsized.

Later,
Eye

Ouch. Little JJ is underwater 250k. And bald.

 

[icehead]

From Music's campaign letter

Give me DOH or give me death.

Is that what you consider substance?

Obviously you don't like his style. Most academy guys have substance.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Don't let the concept get in your way.

I said it may not be a hybrid DFR. We could just sue usapa and not the company.

Judge Wake dismissed the company in the Addington case.

What "concept"? I'm quoting the LAW!

Yes, you COULD sue just USAPA. However, you have to, here it is again:
If the union member fails to prove that the union breached its duty, he will, obviously, recover nothing from the union.  
If the union member fails to prove that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement, he also will recover nothing, because the union member's grievance would have failed regardless of the union's representation.

Unlike Wake, it is a issue of LAW ONLY, there are no issues of FACT.

You CANNOT sue "USAPA" prove the union breached its duty WITHOUT ALSO PROVING (which you will be unable to do) that the company breached the contract. PERIOD. The MOU takes them OUT OF THE PICTURE except for the conditions in 10( B).

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1306558.html

 

[snapthis]

From Music's campaign letter

Give me DOH or give me death.

Is that what you consider substance?

He probably does because he can't pull his head out of his ice.

 

[Pi brat]

So why not come to PHL, that's where the serious WB flying is that you are much more likely to have "some" access to (depending on your new JCBA seniority), because the chances of anybody from LCC flying out of DFW anytime soon are probably extremely remote.

Besides PHL is really great, fantastic Cheese Steaks!, I'll even buy you your first one! I have some close friends in South Philly who are in the restaurant business that I would love to introduce you to.


seajay

Yeah, go to PHL. I hope AA pilots decide that is the place to go too. CLT stinks! ;-)

 

[Phoenix]

What "concept"? I'm quoting the LAW!

Yes, you COULD sue just USAPA. However, you have to, here it is again:
If the union member fails to prove that the union breached its duty, he will, obviously, recover nothing from the union.  
If the union member fails to prove that the employer breached the collective bargaining agreement, he also will recover nothing, because the union member's grievance would have failed regardless of the union's representation.

Unlike Wake, it is a issue of LAW ONLY, there are no issues of FACT.

You CANNOT sue "USAPA" prove the union breached its duty WITHOUT ALSO PROVING (which you will be unable to do) that the company breached the contract. PERIOD. The MOU takes them OUT OF THE PICTURE except for the conditions in 10( B).

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1306558.html

Oh, this morning they were rejoicing that USAPA is now history, yesterday they were saying USAPA is bankrupt, and this afternoon they have decided to sue USAPA alone for billions in damages. I should have invented the circus, because I am not smart enough to be a lawyer.