Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Crimi is a known scab, his name is known among the senior MAG pilots for what he did.

The only thing Steve Crimi cares about is Steve Crimi's upgrade.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The only thing Steve Crimi cares about is Steve Crimi's upgrade.

OH so you speak for people we assume you know ! Interesting since when your spoken of we can assume the same!

 

[traderjake]

In fact, "Team Tempe" would probably prefer it if the MOU did get rejected by us. He could then continue dragging out the contract process for a few more years and pocket the labor cost savings!

Probably true.

 

[prechilill]

Again, Clear, this is all speculation on your part, not the facts.

SLI is not addressed in the MOU. Remember the early framework? Contract first?

My speculation is that the BPR was struggling with the COC issue.

SLI was not part of the discussions. None of the parties involved wanted to wade into that cesspool at this point....it's on the back burner.
breeze

Agreed- the SLI will be handled under M/B. two groups only though because we (US) will be on a joint contract already

 

[prechilill]

Just so you know Colonel, you don't have to put your own words in your own posts in quotes.

The Colonel is: The Most Interesting Man in the World
"I don't always quote people, but when I do I usually quote myself."

LMAO!!

 

[nevergiveup]

Are we back to the KFC vs Bojangles topic?

 

[A320 Driver]

Are we back to the KFC vs Bojangles topic?

Someone compiled a list recently of the top 10 things that tasted like chicken. KFC made the list at #10.

Driver...

 

[A320 Driver]

Agreed- the SLI will be handled under M/B. two groups only though because we (US) will be on a joint contract already

You are really banking on that, aren't you?

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix said: "Reference the recall, "We have to pass it to see what's in it." Only after we create a hole, will be able to see what the "our group" pilots have already planned to put in it.

P.S. If you have to ask who is in the "our group" "privy" pilots.... well if you have to ask, you ain't privy.

Lance, Marshal, Chip, is that you?! "

Actually, your arrogance is showing. Perhaps you will remember the CBL you helped draft gave "recall" as the only means for a pilot group to replace reps who did not agree with the (heavens, a bad word!) majority of their members.

There is no requirement for the "hole" to be filled. That will occur via legal elections. And again, "arrogance" dictates such a recall cannot occur unless those being recalled (and their minority constituents) are satisfied "qualified" replacements are provided.

This is not about Officer politics. This is not about BPR politics. A legal number of Charlotte pilots have called the question. When I was an ALPA rep, my answer would have been (and actually was when threatened)" let me pay for the meeting room and get on with it." What we have here are some reps whose female private parts are hurting. Get over it.

Greeter

Greeter I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts and enjoy considering your logic, even when it isn't quite up to par.

I heartily acknowledge the recall group pilots (some call themselves the "our group")... I acknowledge they are privy to their own agenda and have every right to call the question to recall their reps and mine, with due process, and can do so without regard to revealing their dissatisfactions or their desires for something different, what ever that may be. Yes, you are 100% correct they can keep their secrets from anyone, especially the union reps they oppose. They don't have to be transparent, beyond saying, "We aren't happy."

How did you put it? Something about female parts hurting..?

But dear Greater, the question on this board is not the question to recall the reps. The right to have a recall in due process does not include the right to have everyone also agree with you.

The question on this board is whether or not your fellow pilots should be persuaded to agree with you and join up with tar, feathers, and pikes to unseat those apparent bastigess that ail the "our group" pilots (and maybe me too ), despite the fact that the BPR has voted unanimously multiple times on multiple MOUs. Maybe they are in violent agreement but it looks like agreement to me (except for allowing clarifications on how that agreement came about).

Greeter, those who are here trying to persuade others to join in the recall effort, well yes they can remain secret about their agenda, their complaints, and their pains, but they don't have a right to expect any sympathy votes if they won't stop slandering the ones who are asking to be informed...

Especially when the balance of power on the BPR appears to have take a turn toward more successes like the pension give away and LOA 93... Not saying that is what the recall folks want, but since they have a lot of support from the West and are offended at the notion of revealing their privy thoughts... What are others to think? Well, its self-evident.

Cheers

 

[Metroyet]

You are really banking on that, aren't you?

Driver...

I believe the APA far more than USAPA. Any rational person would.

 

[cleardirect]

Greeter I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts and enjoy considering your logic, even when it isn't quite up to par.

I heartily acknowledge the recall group pilots (some call themselves the "our group")... I acknowledge they are privy to their own agenda and have every right to call the question to recall their reps and mine, with due process, and can do so without regard to revealing their dissatisfactions or their desires for something different, what ever that may be. Yes, you are 100% correct they can keep their secrets from anyone, especially the union reps they oppose. They don't have to be transparent, beyond saying, "We aren't happy."

How did you put it? Something about female parts hurting..?

But dear Greater, the question on this board is not the question to recall the reps. The right to have a recall in due process does not include the right to have everyone also agree with you.

The question on this board is whether or not your fellow pilots should be persuaded to agree with you and join up with tar, feathers, and pikes to unseat those apparent bastigess that ail the "our group" pilots (and maybe me too ), despite the fact that the BPR has voted unanimously multiple times on multiple MOUs. Maybe they are in violent agreement but it looks like agreement to me (except for allowing clarifications on how that agreement came about).

Greeter, those who are here trying to persuade others to join in the recall effort, well yes they can remain secret about their agenda, their complaints, and their pains, but they don't have a right to expect any sympathy votes if they won't stop slandering the ones who are asking to be informed...

Especially when the balance of power on the BPR appears to have take a turn toward more successes like the pension give away and LOA 93... Not saying that is what the recall folks want, but since they have a lot of support from the West and are offended at the notion of revealing their privy thoughts... What are others to think? Well, its self-evident.

Cheers

For all of you CLT supporters. Let's take a look at this single issue. what was one of the east "complaints" about ALPA and one of the "reasons" for leaving ALPA? That ALPA would never call a meeting for the members to recall your leaders. that was not going to happen with the new and improved union. Yet here you are again. The reps demanding that a recall not happen.

From: Steve Crimi Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:57 PM To: Bill McKee; DeWitt Ingram; Rob Streble Cc: CLT; 'Brian O'Dwyer'; Officers Subject: RE: Notice of Intent to vacate Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA)

Rob,
I too support DeWitt’s concerns and have been aware for some time that running a recall election while under the NDA will prevent us from defending ourselves properly.

I of course have also verbalized to you that I intend to file a protest with the Appeal Board calling to their attention, as I did yours, that you are not in possession of any petitions asking the Secretary-Treasurer to take any action whatsoever, and yet you are taking it upon yourself to send out a recall ballot.

Steve Crimi
CLT Vice Chair
Board of Pilot Representatives
Scrimi@UsairlinePilots.org
(980) 875-7645

What have they got to "DEFEND" themselves against? I thought they want to EXPLAIN why they voted they way they did.

From: Bill McKee Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:52 PM To: DeWitt Ingram; Rob Streble Cc: CLT; 'Brian O'Dwyer'; Officers Subject: RE: Notice of Intent to vacate Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA)

Rob,

There are many issues regarding the events we find ourselves and I am in agreement with Dewitt regarding the NDA and any proposed attempt to run an election at this point in time. We have no idea what is occurring and have not been involved with the process as there are many issues that need discussion.

I have no idea what prompted Dewitt’s email but support his concerns.
Bill

Poor Mr. McKee. He has no idea what is going on. Did he miss soon meetings? Not paying attention? How is it that he is not involved in the process?

From: DeWitt Ingram Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 11:17 AM To: Rob Streble Cc: CLT; 'Brian O'Dwyer'; Officers Subject: Notice of Intent to vacate Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) Importance: High

Rob,

By way of this email, I am formally notifying you that I am informed by my Charlotte pilots that a recall of my position as a USAPA BPR member may commence soon.

Should you initiate a recall of my elected position while the Non Disclosure Agreement is still in effect, I will be harmed by not being able to properly defend myself.

With respect to the foregoing, I hereby notify you I will vacate my decision to support the NDA and will defend myself by all available means should a recall commence while the NDA is in effect.

If I do not have binding commitment today to delay a recall until after the NDA is terminated, I shall notify the company of same by 5:00 pm EST, January 9, 2013.

Govern yourself accordingly.
DeWitt Ingram
Board of Pilot Representatives Vice Chairman
Charlotte

First of all there are a lot of I's in that statement.

I think the most telling statement in his e-mail is "I will be harmed by not being able to properly defend myself."
What would be the great "harm" Dewitt would suffer? That he would no longer get to drop trips and stay home on FPL?

Once again the failed logic of the east pilot mind shines through. Dewitt had a choice to make BEFORE the process started. He could have decided not to sign the NDA and be barred from any confidentional meetings. Or he can sign the NDA and be bound to it. You can't agree and sign the NDA then change your mind and go back on your AFTER you made the agreement.

It is not very business professional to send a demand letter like this at 11:00 am and expact an answer and a change in policy at 5:00pm that same day. Since Hummels letter did not go out intil two days later did Dewitt really follow through or was it just a bluff?

Lastly "govern youeself accordingly" Wow quite the threat little man. Talk about a guy that has no situational awareness and completely fails to understand the very bad position he is in. But that would just be typical east pilots behavior. Making threats and demanding things with no leverage, no cards to play.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Greeter I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts and enjoy considering your logic, even when it isn't quite up to par.

I heartily acknowledge the recall group pilots (some call themselves the "our group")... I acknowledge they are privy to their own agenda and have every right to call the question to recall their reps and mine, with due process, and can do so without regard to revealing their dissatisfactions or their desires for something different, what ever that may be. Yes, you are 100% correct they can keep their secrets from anyone, especially the union reps they oppose. They don't have to be transparent, beyond saying, "We aren't happy."

How did you put it? Something about female parts hurting..?

But dear Greater, the question on this board is not the question to recall the reps. The right to have a recall in due process does not include the right to have everyone also agree with you.

The question on this board is whether or not your fellow pilots should be persuaded to agree with you and join up with tar, feathers, and pikes to unseat those apparent bastigess that ail the "our group" pilots (and maybe me too ), despite the fact that the BPR has voted unanimously multiple times on multiple MOUs. Maybe they are in violent agreement but it looks like agreement to me (except for allowing clarifications on how that agreement came about).

Greeter, those who are here trying to persuade others to join in the recall effort, well yes they can remain secret about their agenda, their complaints, and their pains, but they don't have a right to expect any sympathy votes if they won't stop slandering the ones who are asking to be informed...

Especially when the balance of power on the BPR appears to have take a turn toward more successes like the pension give away and LOA 93... Not saying that is what the recall folks want, but since they have a lot of support from the West and are offended at the notion of revealing their privy thoughts... What are others to think? Well, its self-evident.

Cheers

I'm confused.

The tactics used up until now are deemed unfair? Weren't threats and intimidation standard politics withi the RC4/5, usapa flounders, the CCC and PHL/CLT domciles? Aren't whisper campaigns and personal attacks just politics as usual at US Airways? Agendas?? Really? Woody, Ciabatoni and Rowe don't have agendas??

The behavior of the CLT reps has finally become so bad that the sheeple that have ignored it for so long are standing up. Let it play out as it may.

Remember if you don't like the outcome you can change the results...right?

PD

 

[Portly Dorman]

For all of you CLT supporters. Let's take a look at this single issue. what was one of the east "complaints" about ALPA and one of the "reasons" for leaving ALPA? That ALPA would never call a meeting for the members to recall your leaders. that was not going to happen with the new and improved union. Yet here you are again. The reps demanding that a recall not happen.


What have they got to "DEFEND" themselves against? I thought they want to EXPLAIN why they voted they way they did.



Poor Mr. McKee. He has no idea what is going on. Did he miss soon meetings? Not paying attention? How is it that he is not involved in the process?




First of all there are a lot of I's in that statement.

I think the most telling statement in his e-mail is "I will be harmed by not being able to properly defend myself."
What would be the great "harm" Dewitt would suffer? That he would no longer get to drop trips and stay home on FPL?

Once again the failed logic of the east pilot mind shines through. Dewitt had a choice to make BEFORE the process started. He could have decided not to sign the NDA and be barred from any confidentional meetings. Or he can sign the NDA and be bound to it. You can't agree and sign the NDA then change your mind and go back on your AFTER you made the agreement.

It is not very business professional to send a demand letter like this at 11:00 am and expact an answer and a change in policy at 5:00pm that same day. Since Hummels letter did not go out intil two days later did Dewitt really follow through or was it just a bluff?

Lastly "govern youeself accordingly" Wow quite the threat little man. Talk about a guy that has no situational awareness and completely fails to understand the very bad position he is in. But that would just be typical east pilots behavior. Making threats and demanding things with no leverage, no cards to play.

Maybe someone should drop a $100 million RICO suit on him. Seemed like the thing to do in the past....

PD

 

[dca319]

For all of you CLT supporters. Let's take a look at this single issue. what was one of the east "complaints" about ALPA and one of the "reasons" for leaving ALPA? That ALPA would never call a meeting for the members to recall your leaders. that was not going to happen with the new and improved union. Yet here you are again. The reps demanding that a recall not happen.

I remember that well. The irony now is what was supposed to by a line pilot's union with an open-door policy has become anything but that. We now look like the ALPA we left years ago and, what's worse, is that we don't have the national oversight so individuals like Mike Cleary were able to run roughshod with our union's C&BLs.

It's time for change and hopefully it'll come sooner rather than later. It'll be a good day when USAPA is gone and we can dilute the likes of McKee and Ingram into a bigger union.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

<p>Phoenix said: "Especially when the balance of power on the BPR appears to have take a turn toward more successes like the pension give away and LOA 93... Not saying that is what the recall folks want, but since they have a lot of support from the West and are offended at the notion of revealing their privy thoughts... What are others to think? Well, its self-evident."

And there it is again..a reference to "power." I don't attribute it to you, rather to the company you kept for so many years of stagnation. There is a new team in town that is trying to bring this pilot group an improved life, and they ( to a man) have no interest in being in union work for any other purpose. They will hopefully soon be returning to the line unconcerned about "balances of power" or the fantasy USAPA even continues to exist a year from now. (it won't) And not a dig at you sir, but when finished, they also won't be going out on a medical because they hate flying and hate our pilots (again..not directed at you, in any way. You know who I mean)I see you and others waste no time in comparing work you have not even seen to past failures. I again suggest everyone stop flailing around and making judgments about what was given away or not given away, and simply wait and see what lies ahead with an AMR merger.Once the NDA is lifted, I look forward to us all trading predictions of passage or failure of the MOU. Greeter