Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

Fair enough. I'm not much at flourishing pom poms, but I can read and reasonably understand the english language....You?

I don't know all I could about contract language and negotiations, so I lean heavily on the qualified experts we paid to do this for us and advise us. You, on the other hand, lean on a bunch of self defeating politicians that are more interested in significance than they are the well being of the pilot group. They had their chance, for over SIX YEARS and got NOWHERE.

 

[Phoenix]

.. They had their chance, for over SIX YEARS and got NOWHERE.

In six years (and for decades before that) the membership never once said no to a management concession in a vaguely worded contract fraught with grievances, and there is no reason to think they will turn a new leaf now, even after they were schooled by the APA members in bankruptcy.

 

[dca319]

In six years (and for decades before that) the membership never once said no to a management concession in a vaguely worded contract fraught with grievances, and there is no reason to think they will turn a new leaf now, even after they were schooled by the APA members in bankruptcy.

How did saying no work with LOA93?

 

[Phoenix]

How did saying no work with LOA93?

LOA 93 was a yes. That's why you have it.

There is a merger being negotiated right now, and by many accounts it is "the last of the mergers of the big legacy carriers".

The last time we had a merger being discussed Wolf offered us Parity +1% and it was the last time management had any incentive to offer us more. Now that DUI has merger mania, the APA said no to the first, last best offer, during bankruptcy, and it worked out just fine for them.

Don't worry yourself any, DUI is way ahead of most of us. It will pass and over the next few years Harvard business school will revise their text book examples.

 

[dca319]

Are you saying we took the company's first LOA93 offer?

 

[fifidriver]

Still waiting for your plan General. Or is your ego not allowing you to have to explain yourself?

No... I think that the "general" is just one of the bigger "REMFs" to ever grace the board.

 

[A320 Driver]

LOA 93 was a yes. That's why you have it.

There is a merger being negotiated right now, and by many accounts it is "the last of the mergers of the big legacy carriers".

The last time we had a merger being discussed Wolf offered us Parity +1% and it was the last time management had any incentive to offer us more. Now that DUI has merger mania, the APA said no to the first, last best offer, during bankruptcy, and it worked out just fine for them.

Don't worry yourself any, DUI is way ahead of most of us. It will pass and over the next few years Harvard business school will revise their text book examples.

Bad memory...parity +1% was concessionary. We took a cut for that. If it weren't for United getting there new contract, we would not have seen the raises that came later...short lived as they were.

 

[Portly Dorman]

LOA 93 was a yes. That's why you have it.

There is a merger being negotiated right now, and by many accounts it is "the last of the mergers of the big legacy carriers".

The last time we had a merger being discussed Wolf offered us Parity +1% and it was the last time management had any incentive to offer us more. Now that DUI has merger mania, the APA said no to the first, last best offer, during bankruptcy, and it worked out just fine for them.

Don't worry yourself any, DUI is way ahead of most of us. It will pass and over the next few years Harvard business school will revise their text book examples.

What's your worry? Do LTD pilots get the pay raise??

 

[Phoenix]

Are you saying we took the company's first LOA93 offer?

Can you read? No, I didn't say that. And your apparent thought that the company desires in the days of LOA93 are the same as they are today is simply hollow. Its much more likely that you are about 63, lost your pension, and didn't downsize enough after voting for LOA 93. Vote for it. Its ok. You don't need to justify your vote with me, do you? 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

Bad memory...parity +1% was concessionary. We took a cut for that. If it weren't for United getting there new contract, we would not have seen the raises that came later...short lived as they were.

You apparently do have a bad memory.. The reason UAL got the raise is that their management was throwing everything to them to get to the merger. 911 changed everything and they could no longer afford it.

DUI has been throwing everything to APA to get to the merger that will supposedly net him an extra $1.5 billion a year, and the only reason LCC pilots believe the silly notion that he can get the merger without us is because they are too wrapped up with how nice DUI is now.

If management didn't need us to agree to LOA 93, to pay us LOA 93 then they would have just imposed it on us. If DUI could do this merger without us then he would have already finished it.

He and the UCC have everyones approval except the USAir pilot membership. If they don't really need our approval then they would have already done it and it would cost them far less to do it without us, if they could.

 

[dca319]

Can you read? No, I didn't say that. And your apparent thought that the company desires in the days of LOA93 are the same as they are today is simply hollow. Its much more likely that you are about 63, lost your pension, and didn't downsize enough after voting for LOA 93. Vote for it. Its ok. You don't need to justify your vote with me, do you? 🙂

We said no to the company's initial offers for LOA93. Every time we went back it got worse. LOA 93 sucks because we didn't see a deal when we had it. We had to try and outsmart to company.

 

[Phoenix]

We said no to the company's initial offers for LOA93. Every time we went back it got worse. LOA 93 sucks because we didn't see a deal when we had it. We had to try and outsmart to company.

The premise that LOA 93 negotiating circumstances is the same as todays is unfounded. Obviously DUI and the UCC is very motivated to get everyone on board but won't pay a penny more than they have to in order to buy your vote.

The USAir FAs have voted down their TAs twice and DUI keeps coming back with more offers, each time has been small improvements and with the last vote failing by such a small percentage DUI had very little he had to do to get a yes vote, which he obviously will get.

With APA members the percentage of rejection was higher and he came back quickly with significant improvements to get it over the top. With USAir pilots he won't have to do squat more since he bumped it enough to salvage his failed MOU 1, and there is no way he will have any serious consideration of his measure of desire from any significant portion of USAir pilots that are blown away at his generosity of late.

 

[traderjake]

The USAir FAs have voted down their TAs twice and DUI keeps coming back with more offers, each time has been small improvements....

Here's what the FAs are saying in their thread.

First of all , this TA is really not an improvement as it really is the same TA 2 . Parker already said they would offer an early out with a merger before and the $1,700 is just the money they saved from the last 2 TA 's not voted in . So technically .. Nothing was gained . This is a take it or leave it contract . They did not increase hourly rates nor did they improve the RSV section , enhance the me too clause , nor change the PBS language . It's completely the same exact contract .

BINGO This is the same contract ... The Early out was promised previously to both F/A s at aa and us once merger happened.... The MOU No Brainer .... This was AFAs fault for not starting it sooner. The 1700 was a little bit of was we lost since March of last year! As i said before to double 00 700 ...watch and learn!!!! No addtional monies were added. The Strike threat had nothing to do with the company agreeing to yet again opening the talks. It was simple....The last TA failed in the double digits... Take 1700 toss it out there and you got yourself a YES vote! This was perfect for the company because of the *******s at AFA has no clue! Oh and btw the bonus is taxed at a much higher rate than the monies we would have earned over the last year so we lost even more. But our union wants you to believe its their hard wittle work that paid off! I voted FOR the last two agreements and have lost much more than the 1700 minus the 50% tax than this agreement ever gives back.. Lets see yet again how it plays out lol!

Not really. This is essentially the same TA with an add on of a signing bonus and an early out AFTER the merger. We have lost thousands of dollars for what? Something entirely different? Where is it? I don't see it, do you?

 

[prechilill]

God, the Clearyphiles are really coming unglued over the MOU. Lol
This thing will pass 80/20.
We are all ready to move forward, well, most of us.

 

[prechilill]

So there you have it, no improvement between the f/a TA2 and TA3.
Any other questions Scott?