Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

You have only one point that I can see.

If you had made the argument that you and your fellow scabs at uscaba have contributed to the profitability of the smaller company by refusing to negotiate higher wages for the pilots, remaining on your severely bankrupt LOA93 pay and rules, and that is the reason the smaller company post the profits it has had, well then you might be on to something.

But, so far, you just look like a scab who is lucky to have a job, and should really STFU.

 

[Black Swan]

The CEO of a smaller thriving airline making profits in a post 9/11 industry decides to acquire a larger major airline that is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and a very short time from complete liquidation. The bankrupt employees (while still on bankrupt wages) get a $70 Million dollar payout (in two equal payments), get some stock options & now get profit sharing.

The pilots of the smaller company (while making a better wage and MUCH better contract conditions) do get the shared profit sharing but no $70 Million Payout or stock options.

The pilots of the the collective new company would now be in a SECOND post merger contract (example: DAL), were it not for the idiotic retreat from the joint negotiation table and the birth of a new union with the promise of the best contract with "date of hire" seniority within 90 days (that was over 2000 days ago).

By failing to accept a legally binding seniority award and moving on, these moves have cost all pilots millions and millions of dollars and time off NEVER to be recovered.

Discuss while consuming mass quantities of fried chicken & pizza......

Here it is again. "Legally binding, but yet not accepted." Is that kind of like more taste, and less filling?
Or is it more like the classic Jewish Dilemma, of free ham?
Either way, neither legal, or binding.

 

[nic4us]

Ask him what his plan would be if the company doesn't come back to us after we vote no on the MoU. He won't tell me.

I will tell you.

His plan is to try and stay on LOA93, undercut the wages of the other 10,000 pilots, and hope the company show a little favoritism for his group of lowest paid til the last day!

 

[A320 Driver]

The CEO of a smaller thriving airline making profits in a post 9/11 industry decides to acquire a larger major airline that is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and a very short time from complete liquidation. The bankrupt employees (while still on bankrupt wages) get a $70 Million dollar payout (in two equal payments), get some stock options & now get profit sharing.

The pilots of the smaller company (while making a better wage and MUCH better contract conditions) do get the shared profit sharing but no $70 Million Payout or stock options.

The pilots of the the collective new company would now be in a SECOND post merger contract (example: DAL), were it not for the idiotic retreat from the joint negotiation table and the birth of a new union with the promise of the best contract with "date of hire" seniority within 90 days (that was over 2000 days ago).

By failing to accept a legally binding seniority award and moving on, these moves have cost all pilots millions and millions of dollars and time off NEVER to be recovered.

Discuss while consuming mass quantities of fried chicken & pizza......

When the CEO describes you as an extremely likely candidate for bankruptcy, I wouldn't characterize the company as "thriving".

 

[nic4us]

Here it is again. "Legally binding, but yet not accepted." Is that kind of like more taste, and less filling?
Or is it more like the classic Jewish Dilemma, of free ham?
Either way, neither legal, or binding.

"Jewish dilemma"? This ought to get interesting!!!!

Either way, care to share why the Nic is not legal? Got some new argument 6 years after the fact about fraud or another disqualifying factor? Otherwise, it is pretty much a certainty that the only accepted system seniority list at LCC will eventually be used either at LCC, or in any upcoming merger.

ps. Let me know when you get caught up on the legal part, then I can school you on the binding part!

 

[prechilill]

When the CEO describes you as an extremely likely candidate for bankruptcy, I wouldn't characterize the company as "thriving".

Please post the SEC filing where Parker disclosed this. Thank you in advance! Lol

 

[traderjake]

I've flown with or spoken to 14 pilots in the last 2 weeks.

13 yes votes on the MOU.

1 no vote.

 

[cactusboy53]

Here it is again. "Legally binding, but yet not accepted." Is that kind of like more taste, and less filling?
Or is it more like the classic Jewish Dilemma, of free ham?
Either way, neither legal, or binding.

Accepted by Prater. Delivered by Prater to Parker. Accepted by Parker, and meets the constraints that he gave the process. Sitting on Parker's desk.

DOH (or DOH-lite) list? Not on Parker's desk. Not accepted by Parker.

The ONLY reason that it has not been utilized is by your childish withdraw from the JNC and the further childish assembly of a new union for the principal purpose of evading the Nicolau seniority list.

Mike and Randy already schooled you in June/July 2000 "Airwaves": No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.

Hurry up now and drop that DOH list on Parker's desk. Hurry now. We've been waiting 1753 days since USAPA's promised contract and plan.....

 

[Res Judicata]

Here it is again. "Legally binding, but yet not accepted." Is that kind of like more taste, and less filling?
Or is it more like the classic Jewish Dilemma, of free ham?
Either way, neither legal, or binding.

Except for that curious "dangerous ground" comment. Think a Jury would agree with your position? 5 Federal Judges have warned USCABA about their behavior as well. Yep. No problems for USCABA here! You know, because they have such a clearly understood and well articulated Legitimate Union Purpose for ignoring The Nic and supplanting DOH at the sole benefit to the a east at the sole detriment to the West. Sleep tight!

 

[Portly Dorman]

Do you really believe this? It's a shame you bought into the AOL fundraiser 'angry f/o' scheme.

AOL an angry FO scheme? It's more of a protect what you brought to the table scheme. Not handing my Captain's seat to some furloughee. Would you??

 

[AAviator]

So should we staple a loser bankrupt airline like AA?

You can't.

Why do you think you could anyway??

 

[EastUS1]

I will tell you.

His plan is to try and stay on LOA93, undercut the wages of the other 10,000 pilots, and hope the company show a little favoritism for his group of lowest paid til the last day!

Hardly. My earnest belief is that the company very much wants the the contained concessions and would be back at the table with a better offer. I further believe that the language in the instrument, as it stands, would/will prove every bit as disastrous as was the case with LOA93's language and badly needs more work. You would know that if you had bothered to read prior postings.

Given that your above post defines an individual either incapable or willfully unable to attempt any critical reading and understanding,...well....you're on your own here. I now leave you good west folks to "intelligently" discuss the issues here by indulging in your incessant nyaah, nyaahs and ill wishes towards the east,...while seemingly unaware that you're contained within the same group with those you wish to see harmed.

Sigh! Good luck to all concerned.

 

[AAviator]

AAviator sure left quickly, I wanted to ask him more about the pilot b scale allowed by American Airline pilots.

If this merger goes through, you East pilots should join ranks with the former TWA, Reno and Air Cal pilots that now fly for AA and have a thank you for all you have done party.

You can ask about the B-scale all you want. I wasn't on the property at the time, and am proud to say, I was a soldier in the fight to end it. I doubt I'd be able to answer your question to your rhetorical satisfaction anyway. You don't accept correct or true answerers at face value, and there's little pilot in engaging with you.

BTW, Easties are flying mainline jets for commuter wages since what 2004? When did LOA93 come into effect?

 

[Portly Dorman]

You can't.

Why do you think you could anyway??

It's the east's self entitlement. He's a guy that spent more time on furlough than actual service and thinks he can step over employed people. Surprised he hasn't asked for his 777 manuals. I will say he is a direct line to the radical leadership on the east.

 

[AAviator]

All of that drivel from a guy that says he does not even work at US Airways.

Clax has never had a point other than to bash the "westeners" as he calls us. Bringing up old issues because he has nothing relevant to add.

Clax is a waste of time reading his spew. Ignore works just fine. Responded to him is worthless.

Thanks... he's being added to my ignore list along with ebgws