Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

However the UCC and AMR board indeed have shown that the USAir pilots do have the power to delay the consummation of the $1B/yr merger. That is what is happening right now, though I question our fortitude to do so.

I had no idea you had a seat on the UCC/American board and access to their scheduling information.

And here I thought you spent all day on the couch, I stand corrected.

 

[cleardirect]

Scuttle? Ha, the USAir pilots could never unify to the point where they could say no enough times to chase away those investors. When have USAir pilots ever said no the first time? Ever?

However the UCC and AMR board indeed have shown that the USAir pilots do have the power to delay the consummation of the $1B/yr merger. That is what is happening right now, though I question our fortitude to do so.

If we accept the present offer then negotiations will immediately terminate and the UCC and AMR BOD will smile with glee that we don't have half the stomach as the FAs.

I find it incredulous that the UCC would walk away from a $1B/yr deal just because the pilots expected a second offer, but if folks are persuaded that we would scuttle their interest so easily then by all means we should all vote yes at any cost. 🙂

The UCC is not going to walk away from the deal if this MOU gets turned down.

The company will walk away from the negotiating table.

The UCC will tell Parker. OK run the company, keep the pilots on their same contracts for the next 12-24 months. Thanks for saving us another $500 million over that time. Here is a bonus.

Talk to the APA when they are put in charge and get a deal from the APA since usapa obviously can't do it. It was going to be separate ops for the next 1-2 years anyway so no problem.

What is your plan if this MOU gets turned down and the company refuses to negotiate a second time?

What is your plan if the company would negotiate a second time but the APA board votes it down because they think it is to much for the usapa pilots?

What is your plan if the UCC refuses to put anymore money on the table? They tell usapa that was your deal you decided to leave it. Good luck for the next 1-2 years?

How is that section 6 negotiation going BTW?

 

[nevergiveup]

The UCC is not going to walk away from the deal if this MOU gets turned down.

The company will walk away from the negotiating table.

The UCC will tell Parker. OK run the company, keep the pilots on their same contracts for the next 12-24 months. Thanks for saving us another $500 million over that time. Here is a bonus.

Talk to the APA when they are put in charge and get a deal from the APA since usapa obviously can't do it. It was going to be separate ops for the next 1-2 years anyway so no problem.

What is your plan if this MOU gets turned down and the company refuses to negotiate a second time?

What is your plan if the company would negotiate a second time but the APA board votes it down because they think it is to much for the usapa pilots?

What is your plan if the UCC refuses to put anymore money on the table? They tell usapa that was your deal you decided to leave it. Good luck for the next 1-2 years?

How is that section 6 negotiation going BTW?

This group has always voted yes for everything and it looks like Clear Direct wants to join them. So be it.

 

[nevergiveup]

I don’t understand. A clarification was made (in our favor) that allowed the results of the vote to be published today. When we get a “clarification” of contract language from Grievance and the Company in our favor, do we “vote” on it? Of course not. You are just trying to deal with your own horror at actually having to pay attention and vote. You seem torn. If your big issue with this MOU is over an agreement that allows us to immediately see the results, you must really be confused. And If you are a CLT pilot you are really on your own, I feel your pain. Who knows what to think.
.
Greeter (and waiting for your reply, announcing to us all you still...vote no)

Yes, I am still voting "no."

 

[dca319]

So it's not the unions job to tell the members how to vote, except when these guys say to vote no? What a bunch of hypocrites. Looks like the inmates are back in charge of the asylum. I sure hope this merger occurs, because without an infusion of brains and maturity into this pilot group we're going to be the lowest paid joke of the industry forever.

Bean

They won't be able to do much once this MoU passes.

 

[dca319]

Scuttle? Ha, the USAir pilots could never unify to the point where they could say no enough times to chase away those investors. When have USAir pilots ever said no the first time? Ever?

However the UCC and AMR board indeed have shown that the USAir pilots do have the power to delay the consummation of the $1B/yr merger. That is what is happening right now, though I question our fortitude to do so.

If we accept the present offer then negotiations will immediately terminate and the UCC and AMR BOD will smile with glee that we don't have half the stomach as the FAs.

I find it incredulous that the UCC would walk away from a $1B/yr deal just because the pilots expected a second offer, but if folks are persuaded that we would scuttle their interest so easily then by all means we should all vote yes at any cost. 🙂

That's nonsense. They don't give two shits about us so get over yourself.

 

[Phoenix]

The UCC is not going to walk away from the deal if this MOU gets turned down....

....What is your plan if the company would negotiate a second time but the APA board votes it down because they think it is to much for the usapa pilots?

...What is your plan if the UCC refuses to put anymore money on the table?

I agree the UCC won't walk away. Niether will they approve the MOU until we do, as reported by many news sources, and thier actions themself. That's the point. If they could do it without our agreement in place they would already have done so and saved 100s of millions of dollars. Fear that we could chase AMR and the UCC away from a $1B/yr deal is a bit irrational. They know we have a price point to sell it to them, and unless they are idiots they didn't start with their highest offer.

 

[dca319]

I've made my decision. I figure I may be screwing myself, but at least it won't someone else doing it to me.

Best of luck to all.

So long as you're getting screwed. Couldn't have it any other way.

 

[Phoenix]

They won't be able to do much once this MoU passes.

That's nonsense. They don't give two shits about us so get over yourself.

Well at least you are inconsistent, and you are kind enough to put your posts close together so us slow folks won't miss it.

 

[dca319]

Yes, I am still voting "no."

Probably voted yes.

 

[cleardirect]

I agree the UCC won't walk away. Niether will they approve the MOU until we do, as reported by many news sources, and thier actions themself. That's the point. If they could do it without our agreement in place they would already have done so and saved 100s of millions of dollars. Fear that we could chase AMR and the UCC away from a $1B/yr deal is a bit irrational. They know we have a price point to sell it to them, and unless they are idiots they didn't start with their highest offer.

I did not see your plan to any of my questions?

No plan B?

Vote no and hope?

 

[nevergiveup]

Probably voted yes.

No....voted "no." I don't care if you voted yes, as long as you read the materials or went to a road show. I voted no once at another airline and in return received quite a bit more income. This time it's no, not for the income, but for a badly written document, or perhaps a well crafted document if you are on the side of the company. Cheers!

 

[dca319]

No....voted "no." I don't care if you voted yes, as long as you read the materials or went to a road show. I voted no once at another airline and in return received quite a bit more income. This time it's no, not for the income, but for a badly written document, or perhaps a well crafted document if you are on the side of the company. Cheers!

MoU is temporary. You'll be voting on a contract soon thereafter. A no vote simply means you won't have a say.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

This group has always voted yes for everything and it looks like Clear Direct wants to join them. So be it.

Eventually you have to vote yes on everything.

What is your plan keep voting no. Never get a contract and retire on LOA93?

The problem with you east guys guys is you have shot your credibility. People try and make deals and you agree then change your mind.

There is no deal out there good enough for you. There is no amount of money that you will accept. There is no language tight enough for you to believe. You think the world owes you billions of dollars. Except there is no one going to pick up that tab. Face it that money is gone. Everyday you wait is more money that will never be recovered.


Fear has frozen you in place. Keep voting no, test the waters. Just be sure you understand exactly what that means. Don't hope and come up with what you think is the best case. Think about what the money guys and management would do.

Talk to the NAC and Wilder. Ask them what exactly happens if this MOU is rejected.

 

[dca319]

Well at least you are inconsistent, and you are kind enough to put your posts close together so us slow folks won't miss it.

You make no sense. Did you even read those relies before you put them together? With that logic I can see why you guys lacked the ability to vote yes.