Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

No....voted "no." I don't care if you voted yes, as long as you read the materials or went to a road show. I voted no once at another airline and in return received quite a bit more income. This time it's no, not for the income, but for a badly written document, or perhaps a well crafted document if you are on the side of the company. Cheers!

Did that happen under section 6 of the RLA?

Was that the first offer?

Are we under section 6 now? Does the company have any legal obligation to continue to negotiate with us if the MOU is rejected?

I voted no for c2004. The next contract was about 1% different. Vote number three on c2004 made zero difference.

The F/As are voting the third time. They are telling me there the only difference is a buy out and $1700 after 10 years on the old contract.

Voting do not always get you more. In this case voting no gets you nothing. So go ahead showthe company how tough you and teach them a lesson that you are not going to let them give you any more money.

 

[PullUp]

I don’t understand. A clarification was made (in our favor) that allowed the results of the vote to be published today...

Nope. Not in our favor. How could you see showing your cards at the poker table before the hand is played as being in our favor?
Negotiations 101.

 

[traderjake]

How could you see showing your cards at the poker table before the hand is played as being in our favor?
Negotiations 101.

We showed our hand when he went to the company and said "Where's our MOU?".

Logic 101.

 

[cleardirect]

Let me ask you no voters a question.

What makes you think that you are so special and entitled to more?

The APA pilots have accepted the green book (a true legacy contract). A contract that will move the west pilots backwards but the east will gain in many areas. You wanted a contract like the other big boys have. Here it is.

The APA has accepted the MOU and the language.

Why do you think you deserve better?

The APA wants Parker to run the airline. You guys have demanded his resignation. Could it be that the APA has better lawyers and grievance committee? Does the APA have over 400 grievances? Could it be that the APA knows how to work with management to avoid contract violations?

Could it be that the APA has better leadership?

Could it be that the APA does not have whacko members bent on self destruction?

What makes you think that you special and better than an American pilot and deserve more?

 

[Phoenix]

Let me ask you no voters a question.

What makes you think that you are so special and entitled to more?...

Simply insisting an unclear draft quality document be properly written isn't too much to ask for unless you have limited self-respect or an inflated expectation of altruism from those who have yet to demonstrate it.

Its business plain and simple. Thinking otherwise is naiveté.

 

[nevergiveup]

Did that happen under section 6 of the RLA?

Was that the first offer?

Are we under section 6 now? Does the company have any legal obligation to continue to negotiate with us if the MOU is rejected?

I voted no for c2004. The next contract was about 1% different. Vote number three on c2004 made zero difference.

The F/As are voting the third time. They are telling me there the only difference is a buy out and $1700 after 10 years on the old contract.

Voting do not always get you more. In this case voting no gets you nothing. So go ahead showthe company how tough you and teach them a lesson that you are not going to let them give you any more money.

While you are a bit nosey about my previous income, I'm sorry whatever you did in 2004 didn't work out for you. It's time to move ahead and get out of the past!

 

[Phoenix]

...

The APA pilots have accepted the green book (a true legacy contract). A contract that will move the west pilots backwards but the east will gain in many areas. ...

Yes indeed the West is better off than AA green book (and always have been the better paid), and it is extraordinarily kind of the West to sacrificially accept moving backwards by voting this in simply out of the goodness of their heart to allow the East (and APA itself) to move forward.

 

[nevergiveup]

Eventually you have to vote yes on everything.

What is your plan keep voting no. Never get a contract and retire on LOA93?

The problem with you east guys guys is you have shot your credibility. People try and make deals and you agree then change your mind.

There is no deal out there good enough for you. There is no amount of money that you will accept. There is no language tight enough for you to believe. You think the world owes you billions of dollars. Except there is no one going to pick up that tab. Face it that money is gone. Everyday you wait is more money that will never be recovered.


Fear has frozen you in place. Keep voting no, test the waters. Just be sure you understand exactly what that means. Don't hope and come up with what you think is the best case. Think about what the money guys and management would do.

Talk to the NAC and Wilder. Ask them what exactly happens if this MOU is rejected.

How about, eventually you have to vote yes on something!

 

[traderjake]

If you expected the recall to fail why join the movement to spend union resources for a failed belief? There is your economic reason.

If the CLT Reps were not threatened with recall would they have put an MOU they don't like out for a membership vote?

The Recall ensured we got to vote on the MOU.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Ouch...That's gonna leave a mark!

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/08/this-may-be-the-worst-company-ever.aspx

 

[cleardirect]

So no answers as to why east pilots are better than American pilot. Thought so.

 

[cleardirect]

Simply insisting an unclear draft quality document be properly written isn't too much to ask for unless you have limited self-respect or an inflated expectation of altruism from those who have yet to demonstrate it.

Its business plain and simple. Thinking otherwise is naiveté.

You do understand that the MOU is not the final product right? The MOU is a pathway to a contract.

Do you honestly think that 16 pages is going to cover everything? The green book is 360 pages.

 

[cleardirect]

While you are a bit nosey about my previous income, I'm sorry whatever you did in 2004 didn't work out for you. It's time to move ahead and get out of the past!

There was nothing wrong with my 2004. However 2005 Doug Parker made a huge mistake and saved an airline that should have been thrown on the strap heap of history, US Airways.

Parker hooked the west to the worst pilot group to ever fly airplanes. It has been downhill from there.

Hopefully Parker will correct at least part of that mistake and relegate the east to minority status were you can only do minimal damage from now on.

 

[DCAJet]

any news on the MOU vote? polls closed an hour ago

 

[Pi brat]

There was nothing wrong with my 2004. However 2005 Doug Parker made a huge mistake and saved an airline that should have been thrown on the strap heap of history, US Airways.

Parker hooked the west to the worst pilot group to ever fly airplanes. It has been downhill from there.

Hopefully Parker will correct at least part of that mistake and relegate the east to minority status were you can only do minimal damage from now on.

It saved your job. You really need to get a grip on your anger.