Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[dca319]

[background=transparent]Do you wonder why Delta, American, and United have suddenly, and seemingly in unison, moved aggressively against the scope clauses of its mainline pilot union contracts? Why has Delta hastily offered up money for its pilots, when the RLA allows them to drag this out for a decade? Why has American declared bankruptcy, with bank accounts that measure in the billions, yet demands no pay cut for its pilots? Why has Jeffery suddenly declared that he wants to get his pilot contract finished, but no progress is being made?[/background]
[background=transparent]Nothing of this sort happens by accident or coincidence. There is something behind the effort, and Robert Wall of Aviation Daily tells us exactly what that is.[/background]

“Embraer Expects Flood Of Large Regional Jet Orders From U.S. Carriers”​

[background=transparent]That headline is impossible with the current scope clauses at the major network carriers in North America. This is what is behind the recent, coordinated grab for the scope of flying done by mainline US pilots and is nothing short of a declaration of war on the pilot profession.[/background]

That article was from June of 2012. The APA scope guy at our road whom I talked to wasn't losing any sleep over the scope issue.

 

[Phoenix]

OPERATION ORANGE:
[background=transparent]The mystery is gone as to why many American Airlines pilots are plotting a wildcat. The future of their livelihoods depend on that outsourcing drive being turned away, one way or another.[/background]

[background=transparent][background=transparent]American will place “a huge order” in the next year, Silva says, noting “this will be the driver” for others, including Delta Air Lines—which is ridding its regional feed of many 50-seat jets—to seek more regional jets in the 70-plus size range, which includes Embraer’s E-175 airframe.[/background][/background]​

[background=transparent]That answers the question on where the aircraft are going. Silva tells us that AMR will place “a huge order” within the next year. Silva notes that “this will be the driver” for others (CUH, DAL, and any start-ups) to seek even more 70+ seat Embraer jets.[/background]
[background=transparent]It seems that DALPA’s bid for relevancy, in the face of decertification by DPA, has dire consequences for all mainline pilots – not just the junior pilots at Delta. The erosion of scope at Delta, and the smashing of the APA-AMR pilot contract in mid-June spills over to the rest of us. Delta’s fight is United’s fight; American’s fight is Delta’s fight, and United’s fight is American’s fight.[/background]
[background=transparent]More ominous for AAL pilots is the provision in their new CLA with US Airways that provides an exception for the hard metrics to grow the mainline when the regional feed is upsized. The exception provides that if AMR irrevocably obligates itself to acquire new R-Js prior to the effective date of the US Airways/APA Conditional Labor Agreement, APA pilots have to suck up the disparity by not having any way to obligate US Airways to inflate the mainline accordingly.[/background]
[background=transparent]That is a hole big enough to drive a fleet of 88 seat jets through. The wording of the CLA prevents AAL pilots from having the ability to block such an instance. How much will Horton get in his golden parachute for buying a bunch of Silva’s jets prior to the effective date of transfer to US Airways?[/background]

What are you talking about.. Not even Alex Jones buys this... No way DUI got us to vote to fly smaller jets for the same pay we made on LOA93. It could never happen. We have min fleet with tail numbers... Don't we....uh, don't we??

 

[dca319]

That's funny.. I heard the same thing a week after LOA93 passed.

Some people just have to be dragged kicking and screaming into a better contract.

 

[dca319]

Rumor, read again. I bet it happens.

Listening to the APA scope guy, I bet it doesn't.

 

[dca319]

The "no need for court" argument is about the lamest one you have floated yet. Kind of like "give me your wallet, and nobody gets hurt."

The Nicolau appears to be a non starter with the American guys. They are rumored to be all out maneuvering to protect their furloughed in a potential merger.

"Appears"? Where did you get that from? I spoke with the APA reps at the road show and they wouldn't elaborate on anything. Sounds like you started your day without a cup of coffee so take a rest and go have your caffeine. Between your RJ order and this it sounds like you need it.

 

[cleardirect]

Why wouldn't they now? They could move anything anywhere now. The 195 order that is supposedly coming will bring 118 seats at $114 an hr capt rate. How are you going to feel with that being the first captain jet you upgrade to? At that pay?
Apparently the American guys are in a full court press for counting furlough time as active to prevent them from being hurt in this merger. I would imagine USAPA would be for it also in return for same in the merger talks. All rumors, but who knows.

If both your statements are true. Questionable. You have nothing to worry about. You and the APA will manage to push all the west to the bottom of the combined list. The new hires go to the bottom the APA will be in the middle because DOH will rule the day leaving all the east guys at the top of the list. How would you ever end up flying a 195 if you get your fantasy list?

So either one or the other of your FUD statements is false.

Of course the APA is going to try and get credit for their furloughs just like the east tried. How did that work out for you? As I asked one of your buddies. You explain to an east new hire and anyone hired after 2001 why a furloughed APA pilots should be senior to them. Wy usapa would throw those guys under the bus in exchange for an APA furlough and a 1989 hire. Why the 1989 hires deserves to be improved at the expense of the new hire or 2001 hire.

Dream up whatever fantasy list you think will work for you. But the arbitrator is going to INTEGRATE the list FAIRLY AND EQUITABLY. DOH does not meet that standard.

Having west provably stagnated for the last 8 years then integrated does not meet that standard.

Ignoring a previous arbitration award does not meet that standard.

Relative seniority using the Nicolau and the American list meets that standard.

 

[Zone5]

How "binding" do you really think the MOU is? News for you, A Federal Judge might not agree. Get to an approved POR and the ripeness issue has evaporated. USAPA sold you down the river.

Now that's some seriously "creative" spin!


seajay

ps: Don't forget to update your permanent bid, there is going to be lots of movement, plenty of senior F/O's going back to the left seat.......OH, I'm sorry, you're a Westie, never mind.

 

[traderjake]

Some people just have to be dragged kicking and screaming into a better contract.

If only we could bring back the the Pittsburgh hub, the DC9, and Seth Schofield to run it all we could get back everthing we lost.

 

[Zone5]

So what? The 40 or so furloughs have been offered recall and turned it down repeatedly. I talked to a West guy that told me most if not all had moved on to greener pastures. Why should we continue to fund their medical insurance?

We shouldn't, which is why it was voted away. Chump don't want no job, chump don't get no job!


seajay

 

[Zone5]

The former US Air died September 26, 2007. It's not "your" flying any more than it's "my" flying. 5 1/2 + years is enough. Get over it.

"Your" flying? Right, so tell me, what are you planning on doing on the new permanent bid? Never mind.........


seajay

 

[nic4us]

"Your" flying? Right, so tell me, what are you planning on doing on the new permanent bid? Never mind.........


seajay

I am planning on starting a second tally of damages beginning at the first class date in which West pilots were denied their system seniority when all LCC pilots were moved to a new and improved and most importantly EQUAL pay rate in violation of the agreements they entered into in 2005.

From any future POR you will see nothing but Nic at your airline/s!

 

[nic4us]

The training dept rumor is 49 E 195 s to be announced soon. 118 seats, and pay 114 an hr. Nice.
You are only beginning to see what they have in the playbook now that the MOU got voted in.

Gotta replace that aging fleet of 737s.

Hey, I got a question for you Swan, or anybody else that cares to answere.

Since the MOU passed, if a POR is announced, does east/West fleet exclusivity go away?

 

[nic4us]

Here is another one for anybody.

What are the odds some uscaba nut case challenges the MOU vote as invalid by the end of next week?

 

[N924PS]

Here is another one for anybody.

What are the odds some uscaba nut case challenges the MOU vote as invalid by the end of next week?

I wondered why Luv the 9 and Claxon have been conspicuosly absent since the MOU vote results were released!

 

[Res Judicata]

Here is another one for anybody.

What are the odds some uscaba nut case challenges the MOU vote as invalid by the end of next week?

If the past is any indication? 99.999% chance the scumbag scabs look for ANOTHER do-over. I'm sure it's being plotted over a bucket of KFC as we speak.